And then you move the car to the maker for a simple maintenance task and, surprise bill.
If I'm hacking something I own, it's also highly likely that I am capable of fixing it and doing any needed maintenance. Part of the hacker mindset is not letting the fear of voiding a warranty stop you from truly owning the product you paid for.
I also hacked my car
31–40 of 93 posts
Re: I also hacked my car
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> How about insurance, when there is an accident? The insurance company would need to demonstrate that you've had an accident because of your modification. Just them being present doesn't invalidate anything. However, in the real world, you can bet that they would try - you'd probably win in the court of law, but it's a risk.
Do you really think any insurance "expert" would look for that? From my experience unless the car has some kind of self driving stuff they just check with a mechanic the state of the car to see if it is totalled or can be repaired. Unless there are wires going out of the car there is no reason they would even check the os of the dashboard console[1] [1] I refuse to use infotainment word, it is so unappropriate.
"Probably not". Probably is the key word here. I've seen insurance companies go to absolutely ridiculous lengths to deny a claim, so I honestly wouldn't put anything past them.
Re: I also hacked my car
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
> their $30k+ vehicle and risk bricking it. If you want a car that doesn’t spy on you Reminder that those who bought it, voted for it. In economics, wallet is voting power - what you buy you feed and endorse.
> Reminder that those who bought it, voted for it. I truly loathe this argument. I've seen it for cars, seen it for laptops, seen it for mobile devices. For years. People like you really think not purchasing the bad will fix stuff like this? Purchasing decisions let you pick between competitors. That is all. You can't pick the open-source car that does not exist, unless you want to start your own car company just to…
Well yes, certainly. A market exists because it has buyers - without them, it withers. And a market exists because there is a need, that producers will ride. «if nobody bought the car», they would not produce it.
> If you don't buy any car at all, then you simply don't exist to them
So you misunderstood the proposed idea. It is not the individual that changes the market: a critical mass does. But the responsibility is individual.
> Cars aren't spying on you because people are voting for the spying
The statement is, "if people did not accept it it would not happen, and by financing it they accept it".
> If you want a car from the current market
If the «current market» only contained traps ("and you will give us rights to your grandson" etc.), why would one «want [an item] from the current market».
> Odds are they're all going to have some sort of surveillance-state bullshit, or the ones that don't have it are just going to be less-nice vehicles in general
This makes it sound like "some people will trade decency for items that they see as nicer". That is plain sinister.
> before Framework
There is a difference between suboptimal products - "optimal is not available yet" - and unacceptable products - "this service comes with jus primae noctis".
> do you still need a car anyway? Then I guess you vote in favor of a locked-down vehicle
Let us hope you won't, and find other solutions. But the problem is not about open-source: it is about reliability, security and privacy.
> for "voting" for every feature the car has. You voted for the car
By financing and simply purchasing a product you endorsed it, and with it all its implications. You are responsible. Sweatshop shoes? Responsible. You are given a faculty of awareness and an obligation to use it. Some implications are good, some are minor, some are immoral, some are bringer of dire social consequences.
Re: I also hacked my car
#34And then you move the car to the maker for a simple maintenance task and, surprise bill.
If I bring my car for maintenance and we agree on checking brake fluid and air filters, they cannot decide "Oh, the profiles of the tires are off, we'll change them". No one would need to pay them for this, as it was not agreed upon and is therefore not part of a contract.
So your case makes no sense at all.
Except that perhaps you life in an insane country, or are not well versed in basic contract law :-)
Re: I also hacked my car
#35And then you move the car to the maker for a simple maintenance task and, surprise bill.
Re: I also hacked my car
#36Awesome post! When will we be able to operate our car without it spying on us? Will we eventually be able to turn off the "phoning home" function/part?
Re: I also hacked my car
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> How about insurance, when there is an accident? The insurance company would need to demonstrate that you've had an accident because of your modification. Just them being present doesn't invalidate anything. However, in the real world, you can bet that they would try - you'd probably win in the court of law, but it's a risk.
Do you really think any insurance "expert" would look for that? From my experience unless the car has some kind of self driving stuff they just check with a mechanic the state of the car to see if it is totalled or can be repaired. Unless there are wires going out of the car there is no reason they would even check the os of the dashboard console[1] [1] I refuse to use infotainment word, it is so unappropriate.
If the accident is any serious, both insurance companies will routinely buy the info sent by default to the maker by that model; In particular speed and location info.
If the info is suspiciously absent (because somebody hacked their car to stop sending it), the insurance companies will enter in red-alert mode, and will find how to get themselves out of the problem.
Sent info can be used against you, but also could benefit your insurance company to win the case. Is not always white or black. The main goal of insurance companies will be to protect themselves, but the secondary goal will be to protect you, the client, from potentially serious legal consequences. If both insurance companies are the same, they could team against the vehicle with less clear data.
Re: I also hacked my car
#38And then you move the car to the maker for a simple maintenance task and, surprise bill.
Re: I also hacked my car
#39And then you move the car to the maker for a simple maintenance task and, surprise bill.
If I'm hacking something I own, it's also highly likely that I am capable of fixing it and doing any needed maintenance. Part of the hacker mindset is not letting the fear of voiding a warranty stop you from truly owning the product you paid for.
Re: I also hacked my car
#40And then you move the car to the maker for a simple maintenance task and, surprise bill.
What would the bill be for? "Changing stuff you own"? When did we wholly give ourselves up to the idea that the manufacturer owns the stuff we bought, and they can penalize us for messing with their things?
They will not hesitate to change the Electronic Control module and maybe the BSI also, just to be sure that your car don't fails in the worse moment and kills you. This could start at 1500 euro or much more depending on the brand. They will not understand your "right" to run Doom in your car.
Think also that currently some secondary car systems in many brands can be deactivated online, without creating a situation of danger for you, but making your driving experience really miserable if they want.