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Messenger Implosion Shows Journalism Lead by Visionless, Fail-Upward Brunchlords

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Re: Messenger Implosion Shows Journalism Lead by Visionless, Fail-Upward Brunchlords

#31

Post by Analemma_ »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #17
ProllyInfamous wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>sure with we just had universal healthcare. I dropped out of medical school over a decade ago, so my opinion is absolutely jaded. Talking with graduate physicians, the general concensus is "universal healthcare will never happen in the US." So my suggestion to unencumbered youngins is to study/travel abroad, and begin your expatriation quest... OR: become an attorney (joke: "in the US, for a cancer diagnosis, the be…

Its more likely to happen in Caifornia than anywhere else imo. Medi cal would just need to be expanded and thats it. The framework already exists and about 30% of the state is already on it.

That "just" is doing a lot of work there. California had a $38 billion budget deficit last year and a $68 billion deficit the year before. I would like universal healthcare as much as or more than anyone, but without fiscal transfers at the Federal level I don't think it is possible - states cannot run permanent debts the way the Federal government can.

Re: Messenger Implosion Shows Journalism Lead by Visionless, Fail-Upward Brunchlords

#32

Post by goodSteveramos »

_uhtu wrote: post #6

Kissinger's death was where I really started detaching myself from news media entirely. It was extremely hard to find an article or video that didn't say the exact same thing in almost identical wording: "was kissinger a war criminal? well he was certainly controversial but his influence stood large". No, objectively, he was a war criminal. Bombing Cambodia and several other actions were, factually, legally, war crim…

The US propaganda regime is like a champagne tower. The most self-serving but still superficial plausible narrative is the top glass. Most people are caught here. If you reject this, you will be presented with a choice between several semi-mainstream counterculture narratives some of which are closer to the truth and some of which are more obviously false. If you reject all of those, you will get another set, all of which are more “fringe” and some of which are more obviously false but some of them will be even closer to the truth. If you pick an option that is even more of a lie than the mainstream you become a conspiracy theorist. If you pick the option closest to the truth at every level and discover how even that is a lie, moving on the more fringe level below, you will eventually find yourself with the whole truth, which is indeed quite fringe.

Re: Messenger Implosion Shows Journalism Lead by Visionless, Fail-Upward Brunchlords

#33

Post by dihydro »

taeric wrote: post #20
uptown wrote: post #16

I'm fairly tuned into news -- certainly less-so than in the past, but somehow I never even heard of The Messenger.

Same. Feels a lot like insider gossip that thought they had more going for themselves? That said, "It’s a radical idea, but we could make meaningful progress if we clawed journalism from the hands of affluent, out of touch brunchlords, and put it back under the control of diverse, hungry journalists and editors who actually understand the news industry and media environment they work and exist in." is also a rather b…

In my opinion, "journalism for journalism's sake" would be what we call reporting the truth, or investigative journalism. Is there a national outlet that invests in pure investigative journalism anymore?

Re: Messenger Implosion Shows Journalism Lead by Visionless, Fail-Upward Brunchlords

#34

Post by netbioserror »

>He can’t see the inherent class, race and gender biases in most newsrooms, the steady erosion of trust caused by feckless “both sides” reporting, the underlying flaws with the engagement-baiting advertising models that can violently derail efforts to genuinely inform the public, or the way well-funded authoritarian propagandists exploit these failures for messaging and recruitment traction.

>He’s not alone; recall when Semafor decided to launch a “trust in news” symposium by hosting right wing propagandist Tucker Carlson, then bristled at the idea this wasn’t helping? As the NYT op-ed section ably demonstrates on a daily basis, a growing number of outlets are primarily interested in culture war engagement bait disguised as intellectualism. Mindless engagement is king.

This is a whole article wherein the cancer is performing the autopsy.

Re: Messenger Implosion Shows Journalism Lead by Visionless, Fail-Upward Brunchlords

#35

Post by giraffe_lady »

AlexandrB wrote: post #18
_uhtu wrote: post #6

Kissinger's death was where I really started detaching myself from news media entirely. It was extremely hard to find an article or video that didn't say the exact same thing in almost identical wording: "was kissinger a war criminal? well he was certainly controversial but his influence stood large". No, objectively, he was a war criminal. Bombing Cambodia and several other actions were, factually, legally, war crim…

Were you following the news during the "War on Terror"/"War in Iraq" era? Because the Kissinger coverage, while infuriating, pales in comparison to the horse shit the media was uncritically publishing in the early 2000s. The story that sticks out in my mind the most is the Tora Bora mountain fortress/lair[1], but there are plenty of others. Many of those responsible for this crap failed upwards[2]. [1] https://mornin…

Or the 3d visualization of a very similar complex supposedly under a hospital in gaza, that a major US newspaper ran just a few months ago. The exact same institutions are doing the exact same things now.

Re: Messenger Implosion Shows Journalism Lead by Visionless, Fail-Upward Brunchlords

#36

Post by oh_sigh »

Why is it a given that "managerial incompetence" is what caused the demise of The Messenger? Maybe the vision was just wrong. Maybe the journos never produced any compelling content.

And when the author writes things like

> The idea that the affluent out of touch gentleman behind The Hill — itself a longstanding purveyor of clickbait and timid “both sides” journalism — was going to single-handedly change modern reporting was always laughable.

Then why should I feel sorry for the staffers that took the job, who now need to find another job?

And, finally, while I'm sure Finkelstein will be okay financially, I have a hard time seeing how him burning $50M of his stash as "failing upwards". What opportunities are now available to Finkelstein since The Messenger died, that weren't there before?

Re: Messenger Implosion Shows Journalism Lead by Visionless, Fail-Upward Brunchlords

#37

Post by Dig1t »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #13
javawizard wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having not heard about the Messenger before today, I'm not sure what ideological position you're talking about. Can you elaborate?

It's a-little-ambiguously-coded pro-MAGA how dare people hate the right, the right will have its revenge bit. It doesn't really talk to The Messenger.

Sort of, but also I disagree with you, even centrists saw how dehumanizing and hateful the corporate media became over the last few years and it has turned open-minded people against them.

Re: Messenger Implosion Shows Journalism Lead by Visionless, Fail-Upward Brunchlords

#38

Post by AlbertCory »

> millionaire or billionaire media owners who don’t want to offend sources, advertisers, or event sponsors with bold, truth-telling journalism that has actual teeth

how about:

"People with responsibility for profit and loss who stupidly chase a business model that can't possibly work, when there was already ample proof that it wouldn't."

> bold, truth-telling journalism that has actual teeth

http://www.ifstone.org/index.php

sometimes that does come along. Usually you have to go looking for it, and no one's making much money from it.

Re: Messenger Implosion Shows Journalism Lead by Visionless, Fail-Upward Brunchlords

#39

Post by photochemsyn »

Absorbing the content produced by generalist American corporate news outlets will leave you with a highly biased and inaccurate view of the world you live in and is thus best avoided entirely. Also, there's few people as insufferable as those who religiously read the NYT, WaPo, WSJ, etc. and thus consider themselves 'well-informed'. The confidently brainwashed intelligentsia is a sight to behold.

Specialist outlets of various sorts (energy news, etc.) are the place to look if you want decent information that's reliable, but these are often run on a subscription model, at least for a good fraction of their content. If you want a more in-depth picture, you may have to read a book, or better, several books, as book authors often disagree about what's important or have their own ideological agenda.

In the case of weather, emergencies, disasters, etc. (where you need reliable information in a hurry), it's better to have direct links to the local weather and emergency sites than to rely on a news outlet interlocutor.

Re: Messenger Implosion Shows Journalism Lead by Visionless, Fail-Upward Brunchlords

#40

Post by CommieBobDole »

uptown wrote: post #16

I'm fairly tuned into news -- certainly less-so than in the past, but somehow I never even heard of The Messenger.

Yep, I read the news every day, subscribe to several news outlets, keep up with the various issues going on, am even somewhat tangentially aware of the various meta-drama going on in journalism circles, and the shutdown announcement is the first I've ever heard of The Messenger.

Whatever they were spending their money on, it certainly wasn't marketing.

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