Not enough workers? Work less!
Germany tests 4-day workweek amid labor shortage
31–40 of 82 posts
Re: Germany tests 4-day workweek amid labor shortage
#32I feel like the discourse on worker rights / work-life balance and demographic issues are more decoupled than they should be. Low birth-rates are provably related to the ability of parents to spend time with their children. This combined with other initiatives might help Europe recover from the serious imminent demographic collapse.
The couples I know who don't have kids don't want kids to get in the way of their travel.
Re: Germany tests 4-day workweek amid labor shortage
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Keynes promised us a 15-hour work week And I bet he was quite right, but there is an important nuance: it's true for the 1940s level of consumption. If you reduce your level of consumption to 1940s level, you could easily manage to have 15-hour week. > but those productivity gains have mostly been eaten up by excessive corporate profit-taking You seem to gravely underestimate the huge gap in economic value between…
It's probably a combination. Of course our standard of living has gone up, but so has wealth inequality. And in a way, we're actually working more. Back in the 70s, a single income was enough to maintain a family with a house and kids and everything. These days, it's common for both parents to work, and yet we're not all twice as rich. Most of that extra money is eaten up by higher housing costs, which often depend o…
I think the feeling of not being twice as rich despite twice the income is a function of job insecurity and an awareness as we age that everything is a sham/game, no one knows anything, and everything could be taken away at any moment.
When you know for sure that you will have a job tomorrow, you’re more likely to sit back, reflect on, and savor your wealth.
On the other hand, knowing that people like you are getting fired at-will, unconscious fear sets in that the next time the music stops, you’ll be the one without a seat.
This feeling of not being able to control one’s destiny is what prevents us from enjoying our money sitting in the bank.
Re: Germany tests 4-day workweek amid labor shortage
#34Who are these 45 org/companies?
It's not listed anywhere, but they've done the same in South Africa and list the companies here: https://www.4dayweek.com/sa-2023-participants
Re: Germany tests 4-day workweek amid labor shortage
#35If this becomes a common thing in the US I'd be worried about stoking the flames of class warfare between white collar and blue collar workers. Many of those blue collar jobs (public facing especially) cannot be compressed into a 4 day work week. Lots of blue collar workers are already furious about things like working from home, 'email jobs', flexible schedules, etc. On top of that many white collar workers already…
Blue collar people were always worse off than white collar. Historically, they didn't rebel, but just tried to get their kids the best education they could, so that the next generation could have an easier life as a part of the white collar class.
Chinas attempt to make an entire generation of white collar workers is backfiring stupendously.
It turns out the better solution is to improve the lot of blue collar workers by investing in safety, tool, automation, etc. and increasing salary.
Re: Germany tests 4-day workweek amid labor shortage
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
A few things: - The employer pays salaries based on negotiation, not on merit or some scientific measurement. An employee is allowed to do the same. - Unless the employee is privy to all the details and math pertaining this overhead and is the one who asked for this overhead, then it's appropriate that the employee doesn't care about the overhead at all. - There is also overhead in the employees side that is not take…
> - A 20% reduction of work time never amounts to a 20% reduction of productivity or work output, unless the work consists solely of sitting in a chair (and that's not counting bathroom breaks). I don't understand what you're saying here. If I work 20% less then that's 20% less work that I get done. I don't sit in a chair for work.
Your assumptions only work when things are linear. Reality is generally non-linear as it is one huge tangled mess of feedback loops
Re: Germany tests 4-day workweek amid labor shortage
#37Terribly written article and headline. Germany isn't 45 German companies that will try it. There's no labor shortage in Germany, what there is, are proper salaries. One example are childcare workers in Kindergartens (Kita). Salaries are low and regulated, so nobody wants to do it. Increase the salary and you will have many workers lining up. Germany has managed to grow for decades, from absolute destruction post WW2…
Increase the salary of childcare workers etc.
Do not increase the salary of tech workers in Germany. We are already making more of our fair share. More than double or triple the amount of money that a person working way harder makes.
Sincerely, a tech worker in Germany
Re: Germany tests 4-day workweek amid labor shortage
#38I feel like the discourse on worker rights / work-life balance and demographic issues are more decoupled than they should be. Low birth-rates are provably related to the ability of parents to spend time with their children. This combined with other initiatives might help Europe recover from the serious imminent demographic collapse.
> Low birth-rates are provably related to the ability of parents to spend time with their children.
I'm constantly seeing this idea, and if anything, it's the opposite of truth. Poverty is always breeding much better than the middle class, and the fertility rates always fall when standards of living rise.
> ability of parents to spend time with their childre
Children are an opportunity cost. When parents have a free time, it's a choice between self-realization and spending time with a kid. Spending on yourselves or spending on a kid etc. When you are dirt poor or rich there is no such choice, you'll either have no resources to spend anyway or have enough resources to not bother.
I live in Berlin and surrounded by middle class people and nearly non have children. Give them one more day and they will go to Kitkat/hiking one more day a week. That's it.
Re: Germany tests 4-day workweek amid labor shortage
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
> - A 20% reduction of work time never amounts to a 20% reduction of productivity or work output, unless the work consists solely of sitting in a chair (and that's not counting bathroom breaks). I don't understand what you're saying here. If I work 20% less then that's 20% less work that I get done. I don't sit in a chair for work.
Your assumptions only work when things are linear. Reality is generally non-linear as it is one huge tangled mess of feedback loops
I only have my own work history to go off of.
Edit: An example. If it takes me 5 days to hang siding on a house, and I don't work one of those days, that's 20% less I didn't work and about 20% less of the work that got done.
Re: Germany tests 4-day workweek amid labor shortage
#40Terribly written article and headline. Germany isn't 45 German companies that will try it. There's no labor shortage in Germany, what there is, are proper salaries. One example are childcare workers in Kindergartens (Kita). Salaries are low and regulated, so nobody wants to do it. Increase the salary and you will have many workers lining up. Germany has managed to grow for decades, from absolute destruction post WW2…
Increase the salary of childcare workers etc. Do not increase the salary of tech workers in Germany. We are already making more of our fair share. More than double or triple the amount of money that a person working way harder makes. Sincerely, a tech worker in Germany
Agreed. However, since we don't have the power to set the salary of childcare workers, we will just ensure we don't pay you as much as your colleagues in the US, UK or Switzerland.
Sincerely, FAANG