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EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

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Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#31

Post by logifail »

yurishimo wrote: post #13

As a knowledge worker who immigrated to the Netherlands in 2022 and also lives in Eindhoven, these insights and discussions are super interesting to me. Unlike most of my nearby expat peers, I didn't move here to work at ASML or Philips, but now that I'm here, it's undeniable; the appeal of working for such companies is huge. Obviously, companies want to make money, but the goals of the government have somewhat been…

> don't punish individuals and companies trying to get work done and benefit your economy

Getting work done is one thing, why should locals support tax breaks for expats?

"Technology companies including ASML Holding NV and Adyen NV called on the Dutch government to maintain a tax break that seeks to attract expatriates to the Netherlands.

Ingrid Thijssen, head of the Confederation of Netherlands Industry and Employers, said the government for budget reasons is considering shrinking or scrapping a rule that exempts 30% of an expat’s salary from income tax for five years."[0]

[0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-06/dutch-tec...

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#32

Post by audunw »

jacquesm wrote: post #19
daemoens wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's news to me that NATO's top priority is a company created 35 years after its own.

That it is news to you doesn't mean it isn't true. ASML is strategic enough that NL actually adapted some rules that wouldn't fly for any other Dutch company. ASML has to go to Washington to ask for export permits for items that it would be free to export under Dutch/EU law. That doesn't happen without a very good reason.

> That doesn't happen without a very good reason.

That reason is that ASML wouldn't be in the position it is without USA's early investment into EUV technology, and ASML relies on its own imports from USA that USA could block (not allowed under current US legislation but they could obviously change that if there was enough political pressure).

No need for NATO conspiracy theories. USA is a good partner to ASML. Why the hell would they piss off their most valued partner to satisfy a country (China) that is dead set on copying as much of their technology as they can?

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#34

Post by logifail »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #26
discordance wrote: post #4

So you don’t have to click through: “ The goal of the EU’s $43 billion Chips Act of achieving a 20% world market share for European producers by 2030”

One wonders how much of it is incompetence and how much just plain corruption. Anyone remember the glorious 5-year plan to build a European Google? I think they named it Quaero.

> One wonders how much of it is incompetence and how much just plain corruption

Well, one doesn't need to look very long at Von der Leyen to work out it's probably both.

Look at what she did before becoming EU Commission president ("Among friends and foes alike, von der Leyen’s stewardship of the [German] defense ministry, which she [..] headed since 2014, [was] regarded as a failure."[0]), and look at how she ended up with the job of EU Commission president. The best (worst?) bit is that she wasn't even a candidate for the job she got.

I have several ex-RAF friends, and their joke back then was that von der Leyen had more children than her ministry had working fast jets.

[0] https://www.politico.eu/article/ursula-von-der-leyen-biograp...

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#35

Post by jacquesm »

Moldoteck wrote: post #27
jacquesm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go for it. They're cutting edge and a good employer too.

Isn't the pay smaller compared to other big companies in NL?

I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly, but if you mean the pay compared to US tech companies active in NL then I would say it depends very much on your specialization.

Engineer: 40k and up, team lead: 70k and up, project manager: 90k and up. I don't have much data on other roles but the 'and up' is the big factor, depends on seniority and specific skills. What really strikes me is that an extremely high fraction of the people that work there speak highly of their employer.

I'm sure Google or FB would pay more, especially if you're prepared to move the USA.

Other 'big companies in NL' can pay crap or good depending very much on the company, the field they are active in and the kind of job you are looking for so that's a bit too generic to do something with. HTH.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#36

Post by dragonelite »

sbierwagen wrote: post #18
throwaway4good wrote: post #11

All the big blocks: EU, US, South Korea, Taiwan, and China assume that their subsidy policies will expand their market share. Obviously they cannot all be right. The only that I think is given that will expand its global market share is China. Paradoxically because of the US sanctions and the fact that it relies so much on imports presently.

>Obviously they cannot all be right. Sure they can, just ban imports. Each country/trade bloc ends up with their own chip.

But then you will shrink your global market share. Semi conducting fabrication on a sub 7nm can only work if you have big market share to keep the factories running 24/7..

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#37

Post by jacquesm »

logifail wrote: post #31
yurishimo wrote: post #13

As a knowledge worker who immigrated to the Netherlands in 2022 and also lives in Eindhoven, these insights and discussions are super interesting to me. Unlike most of my nearby expat peers, I didn't move here to work at ASML or Philips, but now that I'm here, it's undeniable; the appeal of working for such companies is huge. Obviously, companies want to make money, but the goals of the government have somewhat been…

> don't punish individuals and companies trying to get work done and benefit your economy Getting work done is one thing, why should locals support tax breaks for expats? "Technology companies including ASML Holding NV and Adyen NV called on the Dutch government to maintain a tax break that seeks to attract expatriates to the Netherlands. Ingrid Thijssen, head of the Confederation of Netherlands Industry and Employer…

As a local I support this. Simply because having more smart people eventually benefits Dutch society and the long term is far more important than the short term. Usually this argument is based in some for of jealousy, but consider: an expat gives up their current life to chance it all on another, has stupendously high private costs if they want to keep up with their family and has to start all over again from scratch which also carries a lot of costs. Giving them a five year tax break seems like a smart thing to do to me.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#38

Post by huppeldepup »

Pete_arten wrote: post #30

I think it might not be completely unrealistic, after all, the goal of the Chips act is to support, to promote investments in the semiconductor industry. There are currently 7 factories in construction and 8 more in planning stages. This info is from December 2022, so by now I will assume something is already finished or in the final stages and possibly more plans have been made. Also, setting high goals might not be…

  This info is from December 2022, so by now I will assume something is already finished or in the final stages and possibly more plans have been made.
Ehr ... no. A fab takes about 3-5 years to build before you get "first silicon". The tail of that estimate depends on how easy you find skilled people.[1]

[1] https://www.anandtech.com/show/18966/tsmc-delays-arizona-fab...

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#39

Post by TheAlchemist »

jacquesm wrote: post #19
daemoens wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's news to me that NATO's top priority is a company created 35 years after its own.

That it is news to you doesn't mean it isn't true. ASML is strategic enough that NL actually adapted some rules that wouldn't fly for any other Dutch company. ASML has to go to Washington to ask for export permits for items that it would be free to export under Dutch/EU law. That doesn't happen without a very good reason.

Didn't know that !

But I think that point of view underestimates EU a bit. I know it's a running joke that EU is becoming an open air museum etc, while the US companies are pushing forward all the innovation.

Well, if I look at biggest EU companies I see global healthcare leaders, ASML, chemical industry leaders, luxury brands etc. When I look at biggest US companies, I see quite a bit of, let's say, irrational exuberance that exist mostly in the virtual world.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#40

Post by jacquesm »

logifail wrote: post #34
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One wonders how much of it is incompetence and how much just plain corruption. Anyone remember the glorious 5-year plan to build a European Google? I think they named it Quaero.

> One wonders how much of it is incompetence and how much just plain corruption Well, one doesn't need to look very long at Von der Leyen to work out it's probably both. Look at what she did before becoming EU Commission president ("Among friends and foes alike, von der Leyen’s stewardship of the [German] defense ministry, which she [..] headed since 2014, [was] regarded as a failure."[0]), and look at how she ended…

> I have several ex-RAF friends, and their joke back then was that von der Leyen had more children than her ministry had working fast jets.

What a dumb joke, besides the RAF being British, I wonder if your friends had made the same joke if she had been a man.

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