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Pentagon moves to declassify some secret space programs and technologies

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Re: Pentagon moves to declassify some secret space programs and technologies

#31

Post by bell-cot »

tintor wrote: post #21
sandworm101 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is above anything spacex would need to be told about. Spacex is the delivery driver. They need to know where the sat is going, how much it weighs, and a bit about its needs. They dont need to know what the sat is actually doing, let alone how that function ties into any larger programs.

But they need to know if sat is hazardous and/or radioactive, or what risks it posses to their vehicle.

No they don't. Pre-launch satellites do not normally leak toxic chemicals, nor emit noteworthy radiation, nor have dangerous voltages on exposed surfaces, nor ...

And as a Plan B - any satellites filled with secret sauce could easily be babysat (while in SpaceX's hands) by trusty USSF TSgt Top-Secret, who's been trained in what to do if things go horribly wrong.

Re: Pentagon moves to declassify some secret space programs and technologies

#32

Post by scottyah »

dotancohen wrote: post #28
sandworm101 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is above anything spacex would need to be told about. Spacex is the delivery driver. They need to know where the sat is going, how much it weighs, and a bit about its needs. They dont need to know what the sat is actually doing, let alone how that function ties into any larger programs.

> They need to know where the sat is going, how much it weighs Tell me that and I'll tell you what the bird is going to do. Specific orbits have very specific purposes, usually. And knowing the size and mass of a satellite gives a lot of information, especially if I can look at it or even just a blurry photograph of it.

Nobody is launching anything into orbit in secret: once the launch goes every country that cares to track it will be able to. They can always add extra weight if they want to obscure things to the launcher.

Re: Pentagon moves to declassify some secret space programs and technologies

#33

Post by scottyah »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #17
igleria wrote: post #15

> The policy does not mean that these programs and technologies will now be fully unclassified and revealed to the public; instead, it will lower their classification levels in order to share some technologies and programs with private industry and international allies to help the U.S. build an "asymmetric advantage and force multiplier that neither China nor Russia could ever hope to match," Plumb said in a DoD stat…

Hard to say, the vast majority of people with 'Top Secret' clearances don't ever read a single actual regular 'Top Secret' document, even if they work at the same place for years. So if it's declassified down it's unlikely more than maybe 50k people will ever know about it. But then again it could be some super secret thing where previously only 500 people knew about it, or had the full picture, so that would represe…

If this is somewhere you work, you need to report this to Fraud and Abuse. Clearances and billets cost money, if they are not being used they have no Need to Know. From what you've said, this is pretty clearly fraud.

https://www.dodig.mil/components/administrative-investigatio...

Re: Pentagon moves to declassify some secret space programs and technologies

#34

Post by jauntywundrkind »

psunavy03 wrote: post #23
tw04 wrote: post #6

This is essentially about letting Space-X in on more military missions that today they can only pass through Boeing and co. Presumably Space-X wasn't willing to take an entire chunk of staff and dedicate them to military-only missions and/or had staff that couldn't even pass the stringent security clearance requirements. The US government still wants to utilize them for missions, especially with starship and its payl…

No, this is not. This is an attempt to bring overclassification under control, which has been admitted in the open press to be an ongoing problem for DOD. No one ever got fired for being too careful with classified. You can lose your job and your career for not being careful enough. On balance this is a good thing, because information is generally classified for a damn good reason, and it's important to keep US adver…

As well as he very practical uses you've stated for combatting over-classification, there's one other big exciting reason:

Government/governance runs on public trust, which is maintained by governments doing things. If the government won't talk about & share what it does, if everything is secret, people will not believe in that government.

The government can generate belief in itself by talking about & sharing the cool stuff it does. I'm excited for that to happen more.

It was so so cool & weirdly motivational seeing KH-9 Hexagon unveiled at Air and Space in 2011! I dropped everything last minute to go see it. So cool. Hexagon was 40 year old film-bssed satellite, but still so amazing to see, huge & wildly ambitious. I hope this kind of reveal can happen again, can increase in frequency, decrease in number of decades kept cloaked.

Re: Pentagon moves to declassify some secret space programs and technologies

#35

Post by elteto »

tw04 wrote: post #6

This is essentially about letting Space-X in on more military missions that today they can only pass through Boeing and co. Presumably Space-X wasn't willing to take an entire chunk of staff and dedicate them to military-only missions and/or had staff that couldn't even pass the stringent security clearance requirements. The US government still wants to utilize them for missions, especially with starship and its payl…

It is most definitely not. SpaceX is certified to launch whatever they can given their launch vehicle capabilities.

There is only a very small number of people at SpaceX that need secret clearances for DOD or AF missions, and it’s mostly mission managers, not even most engineers. There’s a point of contact regarding the payload adapter (how the satellite hooks and talks to the launch vehicle). But again, that is a very minor thing.

There’s maybe engineers with secret clearances working on military projects, but those are isolated projects.

And if you need secret clearances they government will happily screen your employees, or you poach people who have them. They are most definitely not a hindrance in the big scheme of things.

Re: Pentagon moves to declassify some secret space programs and technologies

#36

Post by mjevans »

scottyah wrote: post #32
dotancohen wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They need to know where the sat is going, how much it weighs Tell me that and I'll tell you what the bird is going to do. Specific orbits have very specific purposes, usually. And knowing the size and mass of a satellite gives a lot of information, especially if I can look at it or even just a blurry photograph of it.

Nobody is launching anything into orbit in secret: once the launch goes every country that cares to track it will be able to. They can always add extra weight if they want to obscure things to the launcher.

Extra weight can even be propellant which provides a bunch of options, including just extended service lifetime.

Re: Pentagon moves to declassify some secret space programs and technologies

#37

Post by Spooky23 »

igleria wrote: post #15

> The policy does not mean that these programs and technologies will now be fully unclassified and revealed to the public; instead, it will lower their classification levels in order to share some technologies and programs with private industry and international allies to help the U.S. build an "asymmetric advantage and force multiplier that neither China nor Russia could ever hope to match," Plumb said in a DoD stat…

Nah, it's probably easier for adversaries to access information within DoD than people inside with a need to use it.

Re: Pentagon moves to declassify some secret space programs and technologies

#38

Post by dotnet00 »

tw04 wrote: post #6

This is essentially about letting Space-X in on more military missions that today they can only pass through Boeing and co. Presumably Space-X wasn't willing to take an entire chunk of staff and dedicate them to military-only missions and/or had staff that couldn't even pass the stringent security clearance requirements. The US government still wants to utilize them for missions, especially with starship and its payl…

Adding to the points made by others, military-only missions are such a hard fought and profitable portion of SpaceX's launch manifest, it's highly unlikely they'd be unwilling to do almost anything to meet the security clearance requirements.

Re: Pentagon moves to declassify some secret space programs and technologies

#39

Post by tomcam »

Dalewyn wrote: post #14
dylan604 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll only help Boeing if they can pull their head out of their backside. To me, this is DoD realizing the Boeing can't do what they claim they can and need a new vendor. It's just that new vendor needs to have the rules modified a bit so they can qualify.

The DoD (or at least the US Air Force) has been very aware Boeing can't deliver for a long time, between the KC-46 tanker and its inability to refuel, the F-15EX Eagle II and its failing to deliver on marketing promises, the V-22 Osprey and its many crashes including the most recent in November that led to a grounding across the services, and more. If this is a move to give Boeing's competitors (eg: Lockheed Martin,…

How can these failures happen so routinely? Whenever I think about the billions of dollars to go into these programs I always imagine that they go through multiple iterative prototypes so that they have something working at all times. It seems to me that would be a way to improve the chances of success at a likely higher cost to start with. But the department of defense does not ever seem to care about cost anyway.

Re: Pentagon moves to declassify some secret space programs and technologies

#40

Post by felixhandte »

dylan604 wrote: post #27
AlexAndScripts wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or keep its doors attached.

When has Starliner not kept its doors attached? Following the content of a thread is a pretty basic expectation. Derailing it onto other subjects is not helpful nor appreciated.

Probably referring to this: https://futurism.com/the-byte/piece-falls-off-boeing-starlin...
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