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Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

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Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#31

Post by jwells89 »

bmoxb wrote: post #18
danielvaughn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun and games until a competitor arrives on the market with a solid developer experience. As soon as that happens, I’m dropping Apple like a bad habit. The only thing keeping me on their tech is my hatred for Android’s UX. Heck, if the Windows phone was still around, I’d probably be on that.

I'm not advocating in either direction, but I'm curious what elements of iOS's UX you prefer over Android's?

For me a big part of it is how gestures track, the curves used by animations, inertia, bounciness, etc. Under iOS it all feels refined and naturalistic, whereas Android’s counterparts land somewhere in the uncanny valley and come off as more mechanical (fitting given its name, I suppose).

Aside from that, in general you can feel more “seams” between components and rough edges all throughout Android’s UX. It reminds me of how the Linux desktop experience used to be several years ago actually, except Android seems to have gotten stuck for unknown reasons where Linux DEs have continually improved.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#32

Post by brcmthrowaway »

sneak wrote: post #25

Since when did we as an industry start championing rentseeking that adds no value? Yes, the App Store is valuable. No, generic payment processing rails aren’t. Even the 1-3% charged by CC companies is bullshit. Apple, of course, charges 10x this. The only reason they get away with it is because they have leveraged cryptography to stifle competition. If other app stores were possible on iOS, Facebook and Epic and Netf…

1-3% of payments does not run an app store for a billion users.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#33

Post by HDThoreaun »

MBCook wrote: post #17
librish wrote: post #5

I'm surprised that so many developers are siding with Apple in this regard. If other stores and payment options were allowed I genuinely believe that: - Apple's own fees would be reduced relatively quickly - Technological savvy users will be able to discern which external sites are safe and get even lower prices when available - Very few companies will be able to afford not being on the App Store (especially if Apple…

I think Apple should’ve won the lawsuit. Epic broke TOS they agreed to, got punished, and whined a bunch to the court. They deserved to lose as they largely did. They’re also not innocent. They don’t want to get rid of all of this, they want the middleman cashing in to be THEMSELVES, not Apple. They’re no underdog hero. Apple is doing something incredibly stupid and absolutely killing their relationship with develope…

Who cares what Epic wants? Their incentives align with mine so I supported them. Apples practices here clearly harm consumers by reducing competition on iOS. It is obvious to me that if Epic won iOS would be a better product, at least for me.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#34

Post by foogazi »

MBCook wrote: post #23
ianlevesque wrote: post #2

It’s like they want regulators to get involved. The arrogance is insane.

They’re sort of trapped between a rock and a hard place. I don’t think what they’re doing is right, don’t take this as defense. On the one hand “services revenue” (their cut from casino/exploitive games) is basically the only thing growing. people who want iPhones have them. People who want iPads have them. The Vision Pro is never going to sell 1 billion units. Wall Street demand growth so they “have to“ keep finding…

> On the other hand, doing this is absolutely alienating every developer.

How did so many devs show up if the platform fees are alienating them ?

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#35

Post by HDThoreaun »

threeseed wrote: post #30
talkingtab wrote: post #14

This is an example of the incredible arrogance of companies like Apple, Amazon, Google, Microsoft and Facebook. They have the ability to pour an enormous amount of money into lawyers and lobbying so that even companies like Epic or countries like the Netherlands have little chance of controlling misbehavior. Even the IRS is having a hard time getting Microsoft to pay their 28 BILLION dollar tax bill. It should be cle…

You're simply wrong. And every court and government around the world agrees. Companies have a right to charge a fee for using their platform. Apple can not be forced to give you their SDKs, Services etc for free and help you sell that product on their marketplace for free. They have a right to charge something . You can rightfully argue that the 27% is way too high and courts have agreed. But those like Epic hypocrit…

You have a right to compete in a fair market, in the us at least. Apple has a monopoly on app delivery to everyone who has an iPhone, clearly their practices are anti competitive. It does not matter that judges disagree, all that means is that the current laws are deficient.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#36

Post by threeseed »

MBCook wrote: post #23
ianlevesque wrote: post #2

It’s like they want regulators to get involved. The arrogance is insane.

They’re sort of trapped between a rock and a hard place. I don’t think what they’re doing is right, don’t take this as defense. On the one hand “services revenue” (their cut from casino/exploitive games) is basically the only thing growing. people who want iPhones have them. People who want iPads have them. The Vision Pro is never going to sell 1 billion units. Wall Street demand growth so they “have to“ keep finding…

> You think there are as many developers who want to develop for the Vision Pro as there would have been if Apple was still as popular with devs as they were 10 years ago?

Apple now charges 15% for smaller developers which didn't exist before. And the rules are far more clear about what is and isn't allowed.

As someone who built apps now and 10 years ago the situation is much better now.

It's ridiculous people talking about developer demand for Vision Pro when there hasn't even been hardware for developers to test on.

Simulators are useful but you can't ship apps until there is real hardware to test on.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#37

Post by heavyset_go »

redeeman wrote: post #24
talkingtab wrote: post #14

This is an example of the incredible arrogance of companies like Apple, Amazon, Google, Microsoft and Facebook. They have the ability to pour an enormous amount of money into lawyers and lobbying so that even companies like Epic or countries like the Netherlands have little chance of controlling misbehavior. Even the IRS is having a hard time getting Microsoft to pay their 28 BILLION dollar tax bill. It should be cle…

by purchasing the new iphone, and calling on apple to not allow third party stores, because they know they cannot say no to installing facebook, and IF thirdparty stores or sideloading were to be allowed, facebook might just get worse! (all this seen in comments in other threads on hn)

This is also known as the "B-but Facebook!" scare tactic.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#38

Post by threeseed »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #35
threeseed wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're simply wrong. And every court and government around the world agrees. Companies have a right to charge a fee for using their platform. Apple can not be forced to give you their SDKs, Services etc for free and help you sell that product on their marketplace for free. They have a right to charge something . You can rightfully argue that the 27% is way too high and courts have agreed. But those like Epic hypocrit…

You have a right to compete in a fair market, in the us at least. Apple has a monopoly on app delivery to everyone who has an iPhone, clearly their practices are anti competitive. It does not matter that judges disagree, all that means is that the current laws are deficient.

App Store is not a market and never has been.

So the concept of monopolies and anti-competitive behaviour don't apply.

It's why the courts treated Google differently in their Epic case to Apple.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#39

Post by heavyset_go »

brcmthrowaway wrote: post #32
sneak wrote: post #25

Since when did we as an industry start championing rentseeking that adds no value? Yes, the App Store is valuable. No, generic payment processing rails aren’t. Even the 1-3% charged by CC companies is bullshit. Apple, of course, charges 10x this. The only reason they get away with it is because they have leveraged cryptography to stifle competition. If other app stores were possible on iOS, Facebook and Epic and Netf…

1-3% of payments does not run an app store for a billion users.

Apple's profit margin on the App Store was about 80% in 2019[1].

Looks like 3% to 6% fees would absolutely run an app store.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-01/apple-s-a...

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