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Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

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Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#31

Post by mgallivan »

wpietri wrote: post #29

How do you deal with the Dunning-Kruger effect? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect The short version is that people who are good at things generally get that way because they have a strong ability to tell good work from bad. People who are bad at things can't tell the difference, so they a) have a hard time improving, and b) think their low-quality work is pretty swell. Is your culture perhaps unusual…

I don't think you explained the effect correctly. I think it's:

lower skill -> higher confidence in ability (overestimation) higher skill -> lower confidence in ability (underestimation)

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#32

Post by jscn »

wpietri wrote: post #28
talentdeficit wrote: post #18

i don't work at valve, but i work at an organisation with a very similar management structure (there is none) and payment scheme (autonomous self organizing teams are paid by clients and distribute payments as negotiated by the group). we have virtually zero overhead and minimal residual or recurring income so we are not identical to valve, but their employee handbook could very easily be ours we have a number of 'ba…

That is incredibly interesting. If you're uncomfortable saying who you work for in public, please contact me. I would love to understand more about your organization and put it on my list of potential companies to hire.

I second this, would love to hear more. I'm really interested in alternative organisational structures of this kind.

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#33

Post by neilk »

loboman wrote: post #19
wpietri wrote: post #11

Do the dishes in the office sink get washed? If so, by whom? And how clean is the kitchen area? This may seem like a joke, but the answer says a lot about an organization. For example, last time I was at the Wikimedia Foundation offices, this sign was above the sink: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:These_dishes_may_requ...

Does this assume that developers should wash the dishes? If so, why is that a good idea? I would assume that developer time is too expensive for that...

Please shoot me if I ever start thinking my brain is too valuable to waste on basic hygiene.

There is a dishwasher. It's five seconds to rinse your dish and put it away.

At the WMF, there is someone whose job it is to make sure the kitchens are clean and the dishwasher gets run, but that's only effective because most people exercise common sense.

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#34

Post by appleaintbad »

bdunbar wrote: post #21
wpietri wrote: post #11

Do the dishes in the office sink get washed? If so, by whom? And how clean is the kitchen area? This may seem like a joke, but the answer says a lot about an organization. For example, last time I was at the Wikimedia Foundation offices, this sign was above the sink: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:These_dishes_may_requ...

See also the coffee pot at 10:00. If you can reliably find fresh coffee, morale is good. Low or now coffee, things are amiss.

If it isn't a K-cup, it probably isn't fresh enough. Also, the place I just left had awful coffee. It was so bad that once when a coworker cleaned the grime that built up in the coffee pot for the past few years of use, it made the coffee taste worse. When grime is the only thing making the coffee better, you need to get better coffee.

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#35

Post by ddonnelly »

strager wrote: post #7
brentpayne wrote: post #5

How many Valve employees does it take to change a light bulb? Who orders the light bulbs and who decides when and where it is to be installed?

Do you hire a light bulb changing contractor to change light bulbs in your own home?

My time is too important to spend time hiring light bulb changing contractors.

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#36

Post by lifeformed »

loboman wrote: post #19
wpietri wrote: post #11

Do the dishes in the office sink get washed? If so, by whom? And how clean is the kitchen area? This may seem like a joke, but the answer says a lot about an organization. For example, last time I was at the Wikimedia Foundation offices, this sign was above the sink: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:These_dishes_may_requ...

Does this assume that developers should wash the dishes? If so, why is that a good idea? I would assume that developer time is too expensive for that...

Reminds me of living with roommates.

It takes literally 10 seconds to wash (not just rinse, but entirely wash) a bowl and a spoon. Nothing has to stay in the sink - just wash things right when you're done using them.

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#37

Post by wpietri »

mgallivan wrote: post #31
wpietri wrote: post #29

How do you deal with the Dunning-Kruger effect? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect The short version is that people who are good at things generally get that way because they have a strong ability to tell good work from bad. People who are bad at things can't tell the difference, so they a) have a hard time improving, and b) think their low-quality work is pretty swell. Is your culture perhaps unusual…

I don't think you explained the effect correctly. I think it's: lower skill -> higher confidence in ability (overestimation) higher skill -> lower confidence in ability (underestimation)

I agree my summary was a bit breezy. But I think an essential component of their theory is the focus on domain knowledge and metacognition, not skill as it is normally used. Consider the title of their first paper: "Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments". In the conclusion, they write, "We propose that those with limited knowledge in a domain suffer a dual burden: Not only do they reach mistaken conclusions and make regrettable errors, but their incompetence robs them of the ability to realize it."

Anyhow, for those who want their full take, the original paper is here: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.64....

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#38

Post by jc4p »

brentpayne wrote: post #5

How many Valve employees does it take to change a light bulb? Who orders the light bulbs and who decides when and where it is to be installed?

When I worked at the office supply store across the street from Valve HQ I had a guy come in and order 8 laser printers or delivery and he told me he played the role of IT over at Valve. So I'm sure they actually have people who choose to focus on things like that.

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#39

Post by kabdib »

RegEx wrote: post #13
flavien_bessede wrote: post #4

Next up: "Poll: How many people consider switching to Valve organization?"

Cue the Agile coaches switching over to teaching "Valve". "Refinery" meetings are held in a format called the "Engine room".

And they're all going to say, "We're just like Valve's flat organization, except here we do it a little differently because we have managers, and a CEO and a few VPs, and ..."

(A cow-orker of mine went to Valve last year; he's incredibly, insufferably happy).

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#40

Post by phil »

brentpayne wrote: post #5

How many Valve employees does it take to change a light bulb? Who orders the light bulbs and who decides when and where it is to be installed?

Flat organization doesn't mean you can't hire an office manager, it just means the office manager doesn't have a boss either.
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