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Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years (1998)

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Re: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years (1998)

#31
post #24

[flagged]

Ironically your advice of watching YouTube videos and reading SO posts sounds more like those "Teach Yourself in 24 Hours" books. There's no easy shortcuts to truly learning any topic.

I only read one of those (Teach Yourself Microsoft Access 97 in 24 Hours). It was 25+ years ago obviously. First of all it's about 24 hour-long chapters with exercises to follow. That's a good amount of material to pick up something like MS Access, and it's not like you'll learn everything within 24 hours from now, but after 24 hours of learning in a week or so.

(You might laugh at MS Access but it was useful at least 3 times in my career, but mostly in the 25-15 year ago range.)

Re: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years (1998)

#32
I've always been fond of this advice. I think it correctly describes some of the activities I would expect you to do and experience before you will feel like a deep expert in programming.

I also think it's worth saying, "you don't need to be an expert in programming to try it! Start by tinkering!" (Other comments have been downvoted for describing what tinkering might look like, but any tinkering is valid! Try running llama.cc on your MacBook! Quantize a model yourself)

Ultimately, you'll become good if you do it a lot, and you'll do it a lot if you have one or more hobby projects that you're motivated to work on. I have a few friends who are completely self taught (one going the Arduino / electronics / hardware route, the other going the web app and tools for personal use route), and the keys to their success is that they have projects they like working on. And they've kept at it for years.

They don't know everything, and they don't necessarily have great foundations, but it's not too hard to learn things on an as-needed basis these days. Both of them find information very differently than I do, which is also valuable for me to learn and see.

There are other ways to motivate yourself: taking a class with homework that gets you coding (the success of this strategy depends on the person!), finding an accountability buddy who you discuss your projects with, finding an open source project you're interested in (start by adding comments, fixing typos, or looking for a good "first timer" GitHub issue), do Recurse Center (although their job placement program may have limited options for junior / entry level engineers)

At some point, you'll have beaten your head against a problem (how can I order these things correctly? How do I get this interaction to work correctly? Why is my component re rendering in an infinite loop?) and you'll watch a video or read a blog post explaining it and you will truly understand the issue. It will be common, and you might have encountered it in a 201 class, but your first-hand experience will help it stick.

Another totally valid way to learn programming is to be good enough to get a job [1] and then be paid to figure it out day after day, and ideally have experienced programmers mentoring you. I've seen people go through bootcamps get a lot out of it, but I think the quality is highly variable

[1] unfortunately, while I think this was a really good path ten years ago, the bar continues to be raised (new grads with internship experience can be very good, companies are not hiring as aggressively today as they did in the world of zero percent interest rates)

Re: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years (1998)

#34

I’ve had a number of people approach me, at work and elsewhere, asking how they too can get one of those programming jobs. I always mention the timeline I was on, having started learning as a kid, making it a major hobby, getting a CS degree, internships, etc. and people are surprised and disappointed there’s no quick path. Or is there? Has anyone here done one of those 0 to 1 bootcamps with success?

> Has anyone here done one of those 0 to 1 bootcamps with success?

My tech lead did this.

Re: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years (1998)

#35

I’ve had a number of people approach me, at work and elsewhere, asking how they too can get one of those programming jobs. I always mention the timeline I was on, having started learning as a kid, making it a major hobby, getting a CS degree, internships, etc. and people are surprised and disappointed there’s no quick path. Or is there? Has anyone here done one of those 0 to 1 bootcamps with success?

The only people I've seen do the bootcamps with success were already very smart and/or coming from technical or heavy math backgrounds.

Aren't most successful engineers already very smart when they start out? Being very smart seems to be a prerequisite for all successful engineers.

Re: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years (1998)

#37

Great article. At 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week - 10,000 hours of practice will take 250 work weeks to achieve. That’s about 5 years of nearly non-stop programming. Realistically, it takes closer to 10 years to achieve that goal.

> At 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week - 10,000 hours of practice will take 250 full weeks to achieve. That’s about 5 years of nearly non-stop programming.

Isn't this basically a software job? Like, get a junior role and work your way up over 5 years doing 40 hrs a week.

Re: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years (1998)

#38

I can't source the video that I watched 5-6 years ago [0] but it made a point about the increasing numbers of programmers and how the majority had less than 5 years of experience. It made sense in the context of IT/web continually having a larger involvement in our lives. [0] https://youtu.be/ecIWPzGEbFc?si=A4qBR2YdX-0CV2bM thanks to comment by wild_egg Can safely say after 20 years that there's maybe a bunch of info…

It is a rapidly advancing field because it is young, so it makes sense that we’d accumulate a lot of ephemeral information.

It feels like we’re still in the alchemist days. Eventually the chemists will come along. They’ll systemize our ad-hoc observations and jettison a ton of them. Until then… Neuton was an alchemist and he still made some pretty big contributions.

Re: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years (1998)

#39

[flagged]

You're most likely getting downvoted because the modern lets-hot-glue-a-bunch-of-dependencies-together approach notwithstanding programming has gotten significantly more complex over the years. Can you muddle through with youtube videos and SO? Sure, if you want the career equivalent of staggering around in the dark stepping on rakes.

The idea that one needs MIT-level training with SICP and AOCP is elitist and sickening. You start by writing small and useful tools that help you explore the language features. You compare your code to other people's code solving a similar problem. You look for ways to make it shorter, more readable, more efficient by reading SO and watching YouTube.

Re: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years (1998)

#40

I’ve had a number of people approach me, at work and elsewhere, asking how they too can get one of those programming jobs. I always mention the timeline I was on, having started learning as a kid, making it a major hobby, getting a CS degree, internships, etc. and people are surprised and disappointed there’s no quick path. Or is there? Has anyone here done one of those 0 to 1 bootcamps with success?

I think one of the beauties of programming is that you can be self taught. It doesn't necessarily help on a corporate ladder though, who maybe expect some certificates.
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