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A vision for the alleviation of water scarcity in the US Southwest

caseyhandmer.wordpress.com

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Re: A vision for the alleviation of water scarcity in the US Southwest

#31

Post by bryanlarsen »

floatrock wrote: post #10

So basically pump seawater up from the Gulf of California across the border over a flat floodplain to the Salton Sea (south of joshua tree) and use cheap PV to run desalination plants that will restore one of our biggest environmental disasters https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/sea-worth-salt back into a vacation hotspot greater than Palm Springs. Costs of the PV and desal (relatively cheap but still absurdly ex…

AFAICT, restoring the Salton Sea and capturing the land appreciation is the mechanism for funding the project, not the goal. The goal is to restore the Colorado river.

Re: A vision for the alleviation of water scarcity in the US Southwest

#32

Post by pfannkuchen »

hnmullany wrote: post #3

Apart from whether the economics make sense brine disposal from desalinization is a big issue. Waste with high salt concentrations can wipe out marine life - it would be nice if this piece took the issue a little more seriously. It's a continuing problem in the Canary Islands which are dependent on desalinization plants: "Rejected brine is a serious threat to marine ecosystems, causing negative effects on both flora…

Can’t we pipe the seawater inland and then deposit the salt on land?

Re: A vision for the alleviation of water scarcity in the US Southwest

#33

Post by bell-cot »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #32
hnmullany wrote: post #3

Apart from whether the economics make sense brine disposal from desalinization is a big issue. Waste with high salt concentrations can wipe out marine life - it would be nice if this piece took the issue a little more seriously. It's a continuing problem in the Canary Islands which are dependent on desalinization plants: "Rejected brine is a serious threat to marine ecosystems, causing negative effects on both flora…

Can’t we pipe the seawater inland and then deposit the salt on land?

When it rains, what happens to the run-off from a huge pile of salt?

Re: A vision for the alleviation of water scarcity in the US Southwest

#34

Post by floatrock »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #31
floatrock wrote: post #10

So basically pump seawater up from the Gulf of California across the border over a flat floodplain to the Salton Sea (south of joshua tree) and use cheap PV to run desalination plants that will restore one of our biggest environmental disasters https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/sea-worth-salt back into a vacation hotspot greater than Palm Springs. Costs of the PV and desal (relatively cheap but still absurdly ex…

AFAICT, restoring the Salton Sea and capturing the land appreciation is the mechanism for funding the project, not the goal. The goal is to restore the Colorado river.

And what pays for it again in a decade when the corroded water pipelines start to need replacement?

Or 30 years when the solar reaches end of life?

I assume original developers will have cashed out by then, someone else is left holding the bag, and the Salton Sea collapse story plays out a second time because it's just too expensive to maintain. That, or it's an exclusive enclave to the LA ultra-wealthy who don't mind that the high taxes keep the undesirables away, all while they've gotten the state to subsidize their vacation homes because the state is trapped and can't afford not to keep the machine running.

Re: A vision for the alleviation of water scarcity in the US Southwest

#36

Post by solardev »

bilsbie wrote: post #23
hnmullany wrote: post #3

Apart from whether the economics make sense brine disposal from desalinization is a big issue. Waste with high salt concentrations can wipe out marine life - it would be nice if this piece took the issue a little more seriously. It's a continuing problem in the Canary Islands which are dependent on desalinization plants: "Rejected brine is a serious threat to marine ecosystems, causing negative effects on both flora…

It sucks you guys home in on some weird issue for every promising technology. He literally addresses brine in the article.

It's a community of hackers passionate about the way things work. Picking it apart helps everyone understand the inputs and outputs of a system to understand how feasible it is, and what the tradeoffs are. What would you prefer, a generic "that's nice"?

As far as I can tell, the author just kinda glossed over the brine situation. Some minerals can be sold, but his solution for the excess salt was just to turbulently mix it back into the ocean, if I'm reading correctly. The sibling comments here explain why that isn't trivial (cost and wildlife impacts). I found them illuminating!

Re: A vision for the alleviation of water scarcity in the US Southwest

#38

Post by joescharf »

I've been thinking about this as well. As climate change affects the distribution of potable water on the planet, it would seem prudent to start installing solar backed desalination and water pipelines to ensure water security for areas at risk.

Now I'm no hydrologist, and haven't researched this idea deeply yet, so don't know second and third order effects (i.e. brine disposal mentioned above, and of course the economics of such a venture.) It seems at some point our collective hands may be forced and we may have to do something that doesn't make a profit, yet sustains humanity as a going concern.

Finally, the fact that we haven't "terraformed" in this fashion drought-stricken places like Africa or elsewhere is a pity. But yes, economics, profit, geopolitics, power struggles, I get it.

Re: A vision for the alleviation of water scarcity in the US Southwest

#39

Post by bell-cot »

bilsbie wrote: post #22

Ok this keeps happening. I posted this exact URL 3 days ago. Shouldn’t the same URL submitted again redirect to mine? Is there a certain cutoff when someone else can submit the same URL? (I’m not complaining, I just want to understand what the rules are)

There's a whole lot of randomness in whether (or not) a submission "makes it" on HN. Re-submission cutoffs, crediting the first submitter, etc. would all require more rules & implementation. We pretty much don't care to bother.

Re: A vision for the alleviation of water scarcity in the US Southwest

#40

Post by JohnMakin »

bilsbie wrote: post #23
hnmullany wrote: post #3

Apart from whether the economics make sense brine disposal from desalinization is a big issue. Waste with high salt concentrations can wipe out marine life - it would be nice if this piece took the issue a little more seriously. It's a continuing problem in the Canary Islands which are dependent on desalinization plants: "Rejected brine is a serious threat to marine ecosystems, causing negative effects on both flora…

It sucks you guys home in on some weird issue for every promising technology. He literally addresses brine in the article.

He addresses brine, but not the waste products that come from brine, and only addresses it in one sentence:

> The resulting depleted brine is piped back to the ocean where it is thoroughly mixed with sea water and discharged.

This is not nearly as easy as this sentence implies.

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