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Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

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Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#31

Post by Aurornis »

danpalmer wrote: post #24

This is why we need unions. Layoffs are unfortunately, sometimes, necessary. But when they happen, it's important that the right people are chosen, for the right reasons (whether that's performance based, voluntary, protecting certain groups, ensuring fairness, etc). That requires collective bargaining by representatives who are able to assess and change the criteria, and who are able to negotiate for better outcomes…

The person in this TikTok admits to having closed zero sales. They're also one of the most junior people on the team (4.5 months).

They would be among the first to go under union rules, too.

Unions are often worse at prioritizing things like tenure over performance, if anything. But even under those rules she was one of the most junior people.

There is basically no situation where a union would have prioritized this any differently.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#32

Post by danpalmer »

brycelarkin wrote: post #9
paiute wrote: post #8

Well, this is interesting. But mostly because cloudflare is doing layoffs, but it sounds like they are trying to fire people instead. Not sure why

Is “firing” 50 people different from “laying off” 50 people?

In some countries yes. In the UK if you want to make 20 or more roles "redundant", you have to group employees by reasonable groups, rank them by reasonable measures, and then let go those at the bottom. You also have to consult with employee representatives at each stage. Then, employees are entitled to minimum compensation amounts and that isn't taxed in the normal way. Much of Europe has similar or stronger processes.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#35

Post by bradly »

brycelarkin wrote: post #9
paiute wrote: post #8

Well, this is interesting. But mostly because cloudflare is doing layoffs, but it sounds like they are trying to fire people instead. Not sure why

Is “firing” 50 people different from “laying off” 50 people?

You won't be getting unemployment benefits if you are fired. Also professional reputation, negotiation of severance terms, getting a positive reference, rehireability.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#36

Post by thepasswordis »

thrtythreeforty wrote: post #28
thepasswordis wrote: post #26

I get why she's upset, but what is the point of arguing with these people? They're just the messengers.

She's not arguing to change the outcome, she's arguing to call out the hypocrisy/bullshit. In some sense it's pointless, yes; in some other sense, you deserve an argument if you don't deal straightly with the person you're laying off.

She's asking for an explanation that they can't give her, and also trying to use some bizarre appeal to emotion by mentioning "trauma" and how much this will upset her life.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#37

Post by _3u10 »

thrtythreeforty wrote: post #28
thepasswordis wrote: post #26

I get why she's upset, but what is the point of arguing with these people? They're just the messengers.

She's not arguing to change the outcome, she's arguing to call out the hypocrisy/bullshit. In some sense it's pointless, yes; in some other sense, you deserve an argument if you don't deal straightly with the person you're laying off.

[flagged]

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#39

Post by thrtythreeforty »

thepasswordis wrote: post #36
thrtythreeforty wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She's not arguing to change the outcome, she's arguing to call out the hypocrisy/bullshit. In some sense it's pointless, yes; in some other sense, you deserve an argument if you don't deal straightly with the person you're laying off.

She's asking for an explanation that they can't give her, and also trying to use some bizarre appeal to emotion by mentioning "trauma" and how much this will upset her life.

> She's asking for an explanation that they can't give her

True - and instead of admitting that, they hemhaw about how her performance was bad.

Agree the appeal to emotion isn't really helping, but on balance it's Cloudflare that looks bad here.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#40

Post by monero-xmr »

danpalmer wrote: post #24

This is why we need unions. Layoffs are unfortunately, sometimes, necessary. But when they happen, it's important that the right people are chosen, for the right reasons (whether that's performance based, voluntary, protecting certain groups, ensuring fairness, etc). That requires collective bargaining by representatives who are able to assess and change the criteria, and who are able to negotiate for better outcomes…

I have several friends who work in construction and trades and their opinion of unions is very negative. This is a blue state and blue city. A lot of HN loves unions but the blue collar opinion of them is negative, from what I’ve seen.
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