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Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine

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Re: Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine

#31

Post by toyg »

sho_hn wrote: post #26

Even though Steam invites its own problems (it's ultimately a form of DRM, a closed platform, and a closed-source application), as a FOSS developer I can't help but feel excited about this prospect. I know many, many people in the 15-35 age bracket who are open to and curious about Linux, even tried it, but ultimately didn't stick with it because of the lack of high-end native games and because rebooting or setting u…

The distribution bit is fairly irrelevant -- yes, you have different packages and filesystem standards, but those are trivial and have mostly been solved. The real problem for Linux games is platform fragmentation: every distribution has a specific set of libraries running with a specific set of kernels, they change very quickly, everyone can compile them with whatever flag they feel like... Anyone distributing binary blobs is going to hurt in support terms, or make customers hurt trying to solve library riddles. Just look at how painful it is to try run an old Loki game on a new distro release.

Re: Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine

#32

Post by peterb »

sho_hn wrote: post #26

Even though Steam invites its own problems (it's ultimately a form of DRM, a closed platform, and a closed-source application), as a FOSS developer I can't help but feel excited about this prospect. I know many, many people in the 15-35 age bracket who are open to and curious about Linux, even tried it, but ultimately didn't stick with it because of the lack of high-end native games and because rebooting or setting u…

This is very forward thinking by Valve. It opens up the possibility of Linux-based game appliances which could run as VMs, dual-boot, consoles, etc.

Re: Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine

#33

Post by chc »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #27
AndrewDucker wrote: post #2

So, the forthcoming Valve console will be running Linux!

There is no forthcoming Valve console. Full stop. That was a rumor based on people misunderstanding Valve's work on wearable computer hardware (which got telephone gamed into "OMG Valve is working on hardware, I bet it's a console").

Eh, depends on your definition of "forthcoming". Valve stated last month that they won't have a console out in the near future, but this month Gabe Newell clarified that they want to make one, but haven't gotten past the planning stages yet, and they posted a job listing for an engineer to create "platform hardware". (Admittedly that could refer to something like a gaming keyboard specialized for Half-Life 3 or something, but it's definitely a move in the direction of the hypothetical "Steambox".)

Re: Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine

#34

Post by sho_hn »

toyg wrote: post #31
sho_hn wrote: post #26

Even though Steam invites its own problems (it's ultimately a form of DRM, a closed platform, and a closed-source application), as a FOSS developer I can't help but feel excited about this prospect. I know many, many people in the 15-35 age bracket who are open to and curious about Linux, even tried it, but ultimately didn't stick with it because of the lack of high-end native games and because rebooting or setting u…

The distribution bit is fairly irrelevant -- yes, you have different packages and filesystem standards, but those are trivial and have mostly been solved. The real problem for Linux games is platform fragmentation: every distribution has a specific set of libraries running with a specific set of kernels, they change very quickly, everyone can compile them with whatever flag they feel like... Anyone distributing binar…

No, the distribution bit is key and critical.

"OK, so we're going to do a Linux version. How are we going to get it into the hands of our customers? What, we need to set up a download infrastructure for that? No, that's way too much overhead for a Linux version. What, we're supposed to partner with a small niche digital distribution platform we've never heard about? No, not worth it, either. Wait, we can just upload the Linux version to Steam, where we already upload our Windows and Mac versions? Sure, why not."

As for distributing binary blobs: You're overstating the issue, IMHO. ABIs in Linux userland are fairly stable these days.

Re: Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine

#36

Post by shuzchen »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #27
AndrewDucker wrote: post #2

So, the forthcoming Valve console will be running Linux!

There is no forthcoming Valve console. Full stop. That was a rumor based on people misunderstanding Valve's work on wearable computer hardware (which got telephone gamed into "OMG Valve is working on hardware, I bet it's a console").

That's assuming that just because they're working on wearable computer hardware that they aren't also working on a console. Actually, reading between the lines, I see this linux support news as more proof that they're working on a console.

Here are some possible reasons why Valve might be working on linux:

1) They think win8 is so bad users will leave in droves to OSX and Linux. I doubt this, Windows has made a ton of mistakes before (ME, Vista?) but it's still king of PC. A lot of people were happy with 7. If win9 totally bombs as well, then I'd say the gig is up.

2) The monetization story has changed. The humble indie bundle has shown that linux users will pay for games and play them on their linux boxes. Is this enough for Valve to change their stance since for the longest time they've said it didn't make economic sense?

3) Valve is working on a console and won't (can't) pay to license OSX/Win as the OS and is smart enough not to write one from scratch. This reason makes more sense to me. Getting steam client working on linux desktops is just a secondary benefit of their primary goal: getting the software stack for their console.

Re: Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine

#37

Post by naner »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #20
beedogs wrote: post #19

"In fact, as soon as I return to my office this weekend I plan to try out Windows 8 simply to see if it's as bad as Gabe states" Oh, dear God, yes, it is.

I'm still using it ...in the Desktop mode, all the time. Never touching start screen if possible. Going to install Ubuntu.

Unity has some usability issues, too. I haven't used it regularly since 11.04 but I much prefer Gnome 3's new interface. (Which, on the other hand, many people also hate...)

Re: Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine

#38

Post by jiggy2011 »

shuzchen wrote: post #36
InclinedPlane wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no forthcoming Valve console. Full stop. That was a rumor based on people misunderstanding Valve's work on wearable computer hardware (which got telephone gamed into "OMG Valve is working on hardware, I bet it's a console").

That's assuming that just because they're working on wearable computer hardware that they aren't also working on a console. Actually, reading between the lines, I see this linux support news as more proof that they're working on a console. Here are some possible reasons why Valve might be working on linux: 1) They think win8 is so bad users will leave in droves to OSX and Linux. I doubt this, Windows has made a ton o…

It could also be as simple as them hedging their bets. We are in turbulent times as different form factors , OSes , development methodologies and paradigms are competing for slices of the computing landscape. There will be some winners and losers here.

If you had to pick 1 platform that will still be around in some form or another 10 years from now regardless of what happens then Linux seems like a safe bet.

Putting in the groundwork by porting steam/source to Linux now could serve them well in years to come if they do decide to develop a Linux based console (or someone else does).

Tying yourself to just the Windows or OSX platforms could seem risky for a large developer. I'm sure they would love to have Steam for iPad too but I can't see Apple letting them do that so they will do Linux instead.

Re: Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine

#39

Post by jiggy2011 »

I wonder if Valve wants Linux to beat Microsoft? After all MS are working towards building their own app store into the Windows platform which could be used to muscle Steam out.

Valve actually has a lot of power to play kingmaker here in a way.

Let's suppose that Valve announce HL3 but also announce that it will be a Linux exclusive title for some period (say 1-3 months), what would happen to the Linux desktop market share then?

I could see it easily double to treble within a week, of course many of these would be dual-booters and I wonder what would happen to the increased market share once the game was subsequently released for Windows?

Re: Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine

#40

Post by Angostura »

Osiris wrote: post #29

With the recent rumors around the idea of a Steam-based console, is it possible that all this work for a Linux client and native Linux steam engine is setting the framework for an open source (software and hardware) based console. EDIT: I see other comments state that Valve is not working on any sort of console. Still, it leaves me thinking they may have a longer-term plan than just selling games to Linux users.

It's a shame that Gabe denied the rumours that he was talking with Apple. I was hoping for a Steam client embedded in Apple's new TV thingy.
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