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WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

smallstep.com

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Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#31
> In the “When using this certificate” dropdown, select “Always Trust.”

Shouldn't it be possible to only enable “Always Trust.” in the "X.509 Basic Policy" setting, instead of allowing the certificate to be used for everything(including SSL)?

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#33

TS information over wifi? Ok. Have fun with that. Im sure it is legally possible somehow, but it just creates a ridiculously large attack surface. And the internal hassles, making sure connected machines are inside defined perimeters ... just run some wires. It isnt like people need to be reading classified stuff on the treadmill.

The CSfC program defines a WLAN “capability package”[0] for just this purpose.

[0]: https://www.nsa.gov/Resources/Commercial-Solutions-for-Class...

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#34
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unusual to run multiple APs on a single SSID. Your scheme doesn't work for that without coordination between the APs. Also, it means replacing an AP would require reconfiguring all the clients.

Couldn't it just fall back to the password version like it does every time now? Like optionally use the keys if present if not renegotiate

Is that any stronger than using a password if an attacker could force a connection to fall back to the password?

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#35
post #9

I want to know why WPA3 doesn't have a mode where a password is used for the initial connection , but then the client and AP generate a keypair and each store their half and use that for all future connections. For all future connections, the AP can validate every client, and the client can validate that it is connecting to the same AP. The AP could have an interface to 'revoke' access to any single client if necessa…

It's not unusual to run multiple APs on a single SSID. Your scheme doesn't work for that without coordination between the APs. Also, it means replacing an AP would require reconfiguring all the clients.

This is nonsense. If you are using WPA3 Enterprise across multiple AP, you need coordination, period. This comment raises zero significant concerns.

The parent suggestion is perfectly sound. More user-friendly means to mint certs would be grand. The caveat is that, if you can mint a cert from a low security password, what's to keep an attacker from attacking the password directly, rather than the cert? It might not let them snoop traffic, but it'd still let them on with the password.

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#36
post #11

> Toggle the switch on the Smallstep RADIUS Root CA to enable Full Trust. The Smallstep RADIUS Root CA is now trusted. What could possibly go wrong? How do you do this without trusting some external CA?

Yeah, this isn't really "running at home" - which is a bit disappointing as smallstep does good work on the foss/self-host side of things (I guess this shows their seller side).

FreeRadius can help:

https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/FreeRadius_EAP-TLS_configu...

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't it just fall back to the password version like it does every time now? Like optionally use the keys if present if not renegotiate

I'm guessing that's going to be an issue for handoffs between APs. Think walking around a multi-story office on a Wi-Fi call. Now picture 30 APs and 100 people on wifi calls/VoIP etc. with DHCP recycling addresses, randomized MACs and so forth.

Is there any obstacle to having a centralized server these APs talk to, which manages authentication? I'm not seeing a hard obstacle, just another piece of network kit and it's cheaper to keep a clunky UX

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#38

A middle ground in complexity is WPA3 with a unique passphrase per VLAN, which allows grouping of devices by risk, or even giving each device a unique identity for access control and traffic management. OSS golang reference code is available, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38402289 VLAN tagging per SSID is a valid approach as well if a router supports it. Thats a lot stronger than how many routers implement the…

My home network is so small I just use MAC VLAN policies on my managed switch. Same SSID and PSK for all devices makes it easy and they all go off onto the untrusted VLAN by default.

That's an interesting idea, but it seems (without having played around with it or knowing you specific setup) like it comes with some security tradeoffs. In particular, MAC spoofing would be an effective way to VLAN hop, if not necessarily a threat you're worried about. It also seems like there is a possibility that devices connected to the same AP could talk to each other without having to go through the switch, bypassing the VLAN tagging entirely.

I'm honestly not sure if the second attack would work or if it would be AP specific, but I imagine most Wifi to wifi traffic through the same AP does not make a round trip through the Ethernet port. This wouldn't be an issue if the AP itself was applying and enforcing VLAN tags, but the MAC spoofing problem would still be an issue.

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#39

I want to know why WPA3 doesn't have a mode where a password is used for the initial connection , but then the client and AP generate a keypair and each store their half and use that for all future connections. For all future connections, the AP can validate every client, and the client can validate that it is connecting to the same AP. The AP could have an interface to 'revoke' access to any single client if necessa…

What would happen if you tried to reconnect to the network and the AP didn't have the pre-shared key? Presumably, you'd prompt the user and ask them if they want to connect. This is the same pattern as trust-on-first-use (TOFU) for SSH, except for non-expert users. It's a good thought but I think it'd fall apart in practice. You'd still be vulnerable to phishing / evil twin APs.
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