Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Coal and fossil fuel use in Germany at a record low for electricity in 2023

energy-charts.info

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 86 posts

Re: Coal and fossil fuel use in Germany at a record low for electricity in 2023

#31

Post by qayxc »

pvorb wrote: post #23
cheriot wrote: post #7

Seems like a misleading headline. Total energy used is at a record low: https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&... Much of the decline came from gas, presumably because they stopped buying so much from Russia.

And because of the mild weather in the winter season 2022-2023. Also, private households are saving on energy as much as they can because of high prices.

Please explain how the winter temps affect electricity use. Heating only accounts for 4% of household heating sources in Germany [1].

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1189752/household-heatin...

Re: Coal and fossil fuel use in Germany at a record low for electricity in 2023

#32

Post by pvorb »

qayxc wrote: post #31
pvorb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And because of the mild weather in the winter season 2022-2023. Also, private households are saving on energy as much as they can because of high prices.

Please explain how the winter temps affect electricity use. Heating only accounts for 4% of household heating sources in Germany [1]. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1189752/household-heatin...

My parent's comment was about total energy usage.

Re: Coal and fossil fuel use in Germany at a record low for electricity in 2023

#33

Post by ViewTrick1002 »

cronix wrote: post #25
pvorb wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge problem with the German coal phase-out by 2038 ("ideally by 2030") is that the law doesn't prohibit exporting coal. So with every coal plant that's shut down, coal becomes cheaper and will be burned by someone else. We're doomed.

> China permitted more coal power plants last year than any time in the last seven years, according to a new report released this week. It's the equivalent of about two new coal power plants per week. The report by energy data organizations Global Energy Monitor and the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air finds the country quadrupled the amount of new coal power approvals in 2022 compared to 2021. > That's de…

China is also building enough renewable power than their grid expansion rate leading to a structural decline in CO2 emissions. At the same time the utilization factors of the coal plants reduce each year.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/13/chinas-carb...

Re: Coal and fossil fuel use in Germany at a record low for electricity in 2023

#36

Post by legitster »

This is really misleading. They already have one of the largest "green" investments in the world and are still only getting pennies on the dollar back for it (Germany is not particularly sunny nor windy).

They still use massive amounts of coal compared to neighbors and the coal they use is lignite (aka Brown Coal aka the worst kind).

The only real change has been reducing overall electrical generation because of the shutting off of natural gas. A situation Germany is only in because of their steadfast refusal to adopt nuclear energy like their neighbors.

Re: Coal and fossil fuel use in Germany at a record low for electricity in 2023

#37

Post by lispm »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #3

Could still be better. Having the same level of CO2e per GWh over the last 12 months as the USA is kind of embarrassing for an EU member state. https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/US (You need to set the time period to last 12 months, not sure if you can encode that into the URL)

> CO2e per GWh over the last 12 months as the USA

Well, Germany uses half the electricity per capita.

Re: Coal and fossil fuel use in Germany at a record low for electricity in 2023

#38

Post by qayxc »

treprinum wrote: post #10

...and that's all because they take electricity from Czech Republic and France, leading to increased prices there. It's like with being green by dumping trash to Poland which regularly lets it burn in the open. "Solutions"

Sources please. The trade was pretty even between Germany and France as well as between the Czech Republic and Germany [1]

The significant imports came from Denmark.

[1] https://energy-charts.info/charts/import_export/chart.htm?l=...

Re: Coal and fossil fuel use in Germany at a record low for electricity in 2023

#39

Post by pvorb »

anonymouscaller wrote: post #34

What is the difference between "waste renewable" and "waste non-renewable"?

I think it's differentiating waste that is burned in two categories: food and plant-based waste, which is renewable, and everything else that comes from non-renewable sources. But that's only a guess because those are typically the categories for waste separation in Germany.

Re: Coal and fossil fuel use in Germany at a record low for electricity in 2023

#40

Post by toomuchtodo »

kleiba wrote: post #18
kleiba wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unsurprising, given the countries' opposing views on nuclear power.

However, in 2023, Germany has for the first time produced most of its electrical power (52%) from renewable energy sources [1]. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germanys-2023-renewa...

Currently at 80GW of solar and 66GW of wind with a goal of 215GW cumulative solar capacity by 2030. Roughly speaking, they’ll have over 300GW of wind and solar by the end of the decade assuming at least another 20GW of wind gets built. For comparison, this is five times more than all existing French nuclear generation capacity (61GW), and does not include hydro, pumped hydro, batteries, and interconnectors.

So the whole nuclear argument is frankly silly. This will be done before even a few GWs of nuclear were to come online.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/11/22/germanys-january-octo...

Post reply on HN