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Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

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Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#31

Post by mort96 »

yobbo wrote: post #21
mort96 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basic fact of the matter is that >99% of people will never be interested in hosting their own e-mail server, and that's okay. This means we need organizations to host e-mail for people. In a capitalist system, that means companies, and it leads to consolidation and monopolization. So far, governments have been seemingly uninterested in going after the large e-mail providers for anticompetitive practices; maybe th…

> In a capitalist system, that means companies, and it leads to consolidation and monopolization. No, a "capitalist system" does not lead to consolidation and monopolization.

Then why does antitrust regulations have to exist?

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#32

Post by midasuni »

pm215 wrote: post #20
lucb1e wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An advantage of landing in spam is that the user still has a choice and is in control. Rejecting outright is a "lalalala I can't hear youu!!" type of stupid situation that only big providers can get away with, without the users realizing their bigcorp is the one with delivery issues

Conversely, if you as the sender get a bounce at least you know something went wrong and can try a different way to contact the other person (different email, telephone, text message...) Bouncing is the traditional approach, and the original ethos was "bounce, or defer, or deliver, but don't ever accidentally or deliberately just drop an email on the floor". It depends whether you think of "the user" as the sender or…

I used to set my mail client up to bounce emails detected as spam with a fake bounce and a delete.

My mail provider (university) at the time complained to me because those bounces themselves bounced.

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#33

Post by psd1 »

V__ wrote: post #22

Is this mira of a U.S. centric problem? I selfhost my mail in Germany, have one at a smaller mail provider and never had problems. It is also not uncommon for companies to either have a local Exchange Server or use the mail service at their hosting provider. If everything is configured correctly, delivery works fine.

Your experience may not be typical. I ran mail servers before office 365 was a thing, and I often had to get off block lists. There are stories on HN about it being worse, now that you have to request unblocking from MS and Google. Yours is the first comment that doesn't complain.

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#34

Post by thejosh »

tschumacher wrote: post #28
thejosh wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main benefit of Gmail and other big providers is the anti-spam, anti-scam, "Google knows best" approach works really well. When I last helped manage a mail server for a small business (late 2000's) SPAM was an absolute mess. You can really see why Azure etc has consumed on-premise Exchange. The massive downside is they are the deciders of who gets through their gates, and if you're on their shitlist, goodluck.

In my experience rspamd has >99% accuracy which is enough for my personal email account. I don't doubt that Google does better though.

Awesome thanks, will check it out!

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#36

Post by BSDobelix »

Pathogen-David wrote: post #26
BSDobelix wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tested with: https://www.mail-tester.com/

Another useful tool is https://www.learndmarc.com/ -- I found the presentation very helpful when I was finally getting on the DMARC train a while back.

True, MECSA is also interesting:

https://mecsa.jrc.ec.europa.eu/en/

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#37

Post by thejosh »

riedel wrote: post #27
thejosh wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main benefit of Gmail and other big providers is the anti-spam, anti-scam, "Google knows best" approach works really well. When I last helped manage a mail server for a small business (late 2000's) SPAM was an absolute mess. You can really see why Azure etc has consumed on-premise Exchange. The massive downside is they are the deciders of who gets through their gates, and if you're on their shitlist, goodluck.

Safety and security is the best argument for monopolization and decreased freedom in general. It will always be a tradeoff. Fortunately a majority is typically more than happy with being fully patronized. The problem really starts if you are start being banned from infrastructure: e.g. see banking apps and 'safety net'. We are seeing the begining of a really dystopian world if regulators do not step in.

I would also propose ease of use as a solution to our problems that the wolf in sheep's clothing took care of for us.

We basically handed over how we communicate to make it easier (Emails, Team Communication such as Slack/Teams, etc), essential internet infrastructure (Cloudflare, Amazon etc), banking, etc because it was easier..

My worst nightmare is somehow being locked out of my accounts, the only means is either emailing the CEO directly, posting on HN until it's hopefully solved or just moving to the country, and eat a lot of peaches.

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#38

Post by lotsofpulp »

midasuni wrote: post #30
lotsofpulp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no option due to lack of upload bandwidth for individuals at their home. And CGNAT. If there had been significant populations with sufficient upload capacity, and ipv6, then there could have been a market for network devices that operated out of people’s homes under their own control. Not that this would have ensured that big players would not exist, but it could have technically allowed a solution to be in…

For running mail you don’t need upload bandwidth, and in my country certainly outside of mobile, CG nat isn’t a thing. Static IPs tend to cost a pound or two more a month from many ISPs but not all. 20 years ago, and of course before then in the dialup age, your ISP operated your mail, so there was plenty of competition. Free at the point of use mail which meant you weren’t locked to a single ISP so there were benefi…

> For running mail you don’t need upload bandwidth, and in my country certainly outside of mobile, CG nat isn’t a thing. Static IPs tend to cost a pound or two more a month from many ISPs but not all.

The thing is it cannot just be mail thing, to make it economically and time wise worth it. I can pay relatively little per month and have Apple/Google/Microsoft to take care of all of my needs, from email to file syncing to photo and phone backups, with the big risk that I can get arbitrarily locked out at any given moment.

But to offset this convenience, people would need an all in one, easy to setup, plug and play device that does it all. Something like a Synology NAS, where all they have to do is answer a few prompts about their domain and at most, swap in and out HDD when and if the disks or the NAS fail.

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#39

Post by freetanga »

I think that governments should offer one free email account per citizen for life. Which you could use or not, but is there for you as a digital inbox… which are the options?

- Self hosting is a bit elitist - not for the masses.

- A paid-for option (proton, tutta,…) would be cataloged as elitist. People perceive email as free.

- A free option provided by a Corporate player will gravitate towards monopolies and lack of privacy.

- A free for life government issued, easy to recover digital point of contact where all your government interactions are pointed towards would be a great step. You could still have a separate one if you don’t trust big brother, but at least your “recovery” address would be secure for life.

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#40

Post by justsomehnguy »

V__ wrote: post #22

Is this mira of a U.S. centric problem? I selfhost my mail in Germany, have one at a smaller mail provider and never had problems. It is also not uncommon for companies to either have a local Exchange Server or use the mail service at their hosting provider. If everything is configured correctly, delivery works fine.

Personal anecdote != universal, global experience.

> have one at a smaller mail provider

    a) [hosted] Mail provider
    b) Server (colo/dedicated/VPS/whatever) provider
Choose one.

> not uncommon for companies to either have a local Exchange Server

Yes and it's PITA to pull it out of the lists of some shitheads, like SpamHaus.

Source: guess it

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