Live data from Hacker News

1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

finance.yahoo.com

31–40 of 68 posts

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#31

I wonder if this has anything to do with how it seems that every time someone talks about colleges better preparing young people for a career, there is always someone here that responds saying that college is not all about getting a job, but about a "cultural experience". I guess you need something to justify the expense now.

Absolutely. This phrase is a distortion of the "liberal education" (that included calculus, biology, chemistry, and physics) provided by universities of the past. From what I can tell, universities used to have a much smaller student/professor ratio, and had a bit more "disciple" in the study of a particular discipline.

Presumably that ended with the G.I. bill, but no one particularly minded because factory jobs were plentiful.

So when baby boomers of yesteryear look back at their college experience, and try and figure out what they got out of it, can they point to stellar education that they use every day? If they majored in Communications, probably not. Do their jobs require collegiate-level knowledge or skills? If they're in marketing or sales, probably not.

So they remember that they smoked their first joint there, and met that one foreign kid from Uzbekistan, and throw in the first awakenings of independent thought that come from living on one's lonesome for the first time, and call it a "cultural experience of self-discovery."

I malign communications and the so-called liberal arts a bit, but that's not completely deserved. If done right, they actually seem about on par with mathematics in terms of usefulness---abstract and useless at first, but a fantastic base for further study, providing that that further study occurs.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#32
post #14
post #9

I'm not sure why college students aren't told that a degree in anthropology/english/women's studies is not going to give you marketable skills, while a degree in nursing/engineering/computer science will. Perhaps incoming freshmen should be given better guidance?

"Do what interests you" is very common and very bad advice. I studied social anthropology for a semester because it "interested" me — but only in theory, not in practice. The computer science degree I eventually received has yielded a far more interesting career than what my friends in psychology/philosophy/sociology have experienced, on average.

Is it really bad advice? I can't think of a single good software developer I know who chose the field simply out of pragmatics. Any time I've met someone in a field because they felt it was necessary they typically hate what they do are are likewise not very good at it (with some exceptions).

It's incredibly myopic for a people who are passionate about something that also happens be a reasonably well paying profession to tell other people that they shouldn't follow their interests.

If anything I think people get stuck because they don't follow their interests strongly enough.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#33
post #13

This is interesting to me. I'm 20 years old and I'm not in college nor do I plan to finish a degree (and if it wasn't for technology greats like Peter Thiel and PG advice, I might still be making a $100,000 mistake). I'm a fairly normal guy, I've been out of high school for 3 years now and I'm making slightly less than Bureau of Labor Statistic's 2010 Median Income for 'Software Developers', which I believe is more t…

oh come on with this bs, while you feel so smug about achieving success through hard work, super obvious you got lucky with an early start. your profile shows you learned assembly before you could vote and started writing a nosql database when you were 19. you're a "normal guy" and im the second coming.

if you're an autistic supergenius there will always be code work, but some of us have to live in the real world you clearly do not inhabit.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#34
post #13

This is interesting to me. I'm 20 years old and I'm not in college nor do I plan to finish a degree (and if it wasn't for technology greats like Peter Thiel and PG advice, I might still be making a $100,000 mistake). I'm a fairly normal guy, I've been out of high school for 3 years now and I'm making slightly less than Bureau of Labor Statistic's 2010 Median Income for 'Software Developers', which I believe is more t…

oh come on with this bs, while you feel so smug about achieving success through hard work, super obvious you got lucky with an early start. your profile shows you learned assembly before you could vote and started writing a nosql database when you were 19. you're a "normal guy" and im the second coming. if you're an autistic supergenius there will always be code work, but some of us have to live in the real world you…

There's absolutely no reason to call him/her "autistic" or anything like it. Take that attitude somewhere else.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#35
post #10

They should learn Ruby on Rails. * Yea, this sounds like I am being an asshole, but really - the gap between how many developers are needed and how many are available is probably hundreds of thousands.

They should. They'll also find it helpful to learn what a command line is and how to operate it. Oh, and HTML -- got to know HTML. And Javascript seems to be pretty popular these days... at least enough to operate jQuery. Then there's SQL, because even Rails developers will get their hands dirty at some point. Of course, we wouldn't want to start them with data programming because they've got imperative programming,…

[deleted]

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#36
post #23
post #13

This is interesting to me. I'm 20 years old and I'm not in college nor do I plan to finish a degree (and if it wasn't for technology greats like Peter Thiel and PG advice, I might still be making a $100,000 mistake). I'm a fairly normal guy, I've been out of high school for 3 years now and I'm making slightly less than Bureau of Labor Statistic's 2010 Median Income for 'Software Developers', which I believe is more t…

Can you elaborate on how video games are more detrimental to human wellness than certain drugs?

Many video games these days are designed as Skinner Boxes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinner_box). Drugs have some of the same effects, but their addictive powers are often limited by adverse side effects (e.g. get too drunk, you vomit) and the build up of tolerance (e.g. a heroin addict continually needs bigger doses for the same effect). Since video games play directly on psychological reward centers, they can push a person much farther into a response/reward cycle than drugs can.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#37
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should. They'll also find it helpful to learn what a command line is and how to operate it. Oh, and HTML -- got to know HTML. And Javascript seems to be pretty popular these days... at least enough to operate jQuery. Then there's SQL, because even Rails developers will get their hands dirty at some point. Of course, we wouldn't want to start them with data programming because they've got imperative programming,…

> That said, "just learn Ruby on Rails" perhaps does not appreciate how much of a gap there is between the bottom half of the US college-bound population and an engineer capable of commercially valuable work. I agree. On the other hand, that's a relatively easy gap to fill. A recent example: http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/20/smoopa-state-trooper-ios-de...

That article is exactly patio11's point--the state trooper in the article spent a year and a half pulling up to 80 hour workweeks to learn iOS. His husband is also technical.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#38
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do what interests you" is very common and very bad advice. I studied social anthropology for a semester because it "interested" me — but only in theory, not in practice. The computer science degree I eventually received has yielded a far more interesting career than what my friends in psychology/philosophy/sociology have experienced, on average.

Is it really bad advice? I can't think of a single good software developer I know who chose the field simply out of pragmatics. Any time I've met someone in a field because they felt it was necessary they typically hate what they do are are likewise not very good at it (with some exceptions). It's incredibly myopic for a people who are passionate about something that also happens be a reasonably well paying professio…

> It's incredibly myopic for a people who are passionate about something that also happens be a reasonably well paying profession to tell other people that they shouldn't follow their interests.

Amen. Almost all the programmers I know (myself included) chose it as a career choice primarily because they found it interesting, not because the money was good. It just so turned out that what I (and probably a lot of other people here) wanted to do because they liked it also turns out to be a great career choice. We of all trades are the ones who should definitely not be telling people they need to make the tradeoff between doing something they love and something that will get them a job just because we happen to work in the intersection of both. That I get paid well to do something I love is truly amazing luck, and I (and, it seems, a good portion of the industry) tend to forget that all too often.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#39
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do what interests you" is very common and very bad advice. I studied social anthropology for a semester because it "interested" me — but only in theory, not in practice. The computer science degree I eventually received has yielded a far more interesting career than what my friends in psychology/philosophy/sociology have experienced, on average.

Is it really bad advice? I can't think of a single good software developer I know who chose the field simply out of pragmatics. Any time I've met someone in a field because they felt it was necessary they typically hate what they do are are likewise not very good at it (with some exceptions). It's incredibly myopic for a people who are passionate about something that also happens be a reasonably well paying professio…

I suppose I should clarify: people generally interpret "do what interests you" as "study what you think you will enjoy studying" when they should really be asking themselves what they will enjoy doing as a career.

Social anthropology was interesting to study, but at some point I realized that actually embarking on a career as a social anthropologist would have been terrible for me. I like learning about different cultures, not studying a few scientifically. I can do that as an amateur.

When I sat down to decide what to do instead, I thought, a) I like making ASP pages for our newspaper, b) you can go into a lot of fields with a CS degree, and c) there is a clear path for making a tangible impact on society. It turns out, that was pretty sound reasoning (despite ASP pages being entirely different from CS): I've worked at Microsoft, in computational biology, and now at a publishing startup. I've never lacked for engagement (except toward the end of my time at MSFT), and the problems I'm able to solve in our economy are a larger part of that than the practice of the discipline itself.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#40
post #9

I'm not sure why college students aren't told that a degree in anthropology/english/women's studies is not going to give you marketable skills, while a degree in nursing/engineering/computer science will. Perhaps incoming freshmen should be given better guidance?

I agree on the better guidance, but I don't think steering people away from these degrees is completely correct either. Anthropology, English, and Women's Studies can lead to tremendously rewarding careers (if not monetarily, at least professionally)...but! BUT! YOU WILL NEED AN ADVANCED DEGREE!

Honestly, I think a lot of good would be accomplished by simply abolishing Bachelors degrees in subjects like these. You want to enter school to study anthropology? Great. Get ready to work your ass off for the next 8-12 years (and then struggle through the world of post-doc appointments and tenure track for the next 9-15 years after that). Oh, suddenly that doesn't sound so appealing? Well then, lets see what other major you might pick that will give you marketable skills after 4-5 years.

Post reply on HN