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Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

cnn.com

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Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#31

Post by jmyeet »

fragmede wrote: post #4

I trust Apple's commitment to privacy as much as I do Google's, but when they both remove a product over a stupid patent rather than pay the patent holder (Sonos' sued Google with their multiroom audio patent), we can see that it's possible for corporations to hold principled views about things.

This isn't a principled stand. Or rather it is but not a principle that matters to you: it's about not setting a precedent that they'll cave to patent trolls to avoid future patent trolls seeing them as an easy target. So they have to fight every patent suit to make it eceonomically unviable for patent trolls to sue them.

As for privacy, as an aside, Apple's track record is substantially better than Google's.

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#32

Post by hiatus »

nickpp wrote: post #17
snarf21 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many problems with software patents and patents that are "_____ but on a phone/watch" but I'm curious of what your solution is? What is a better system?

Unencumbered free markets. Same system that got us the unimaginable (just a few generations ago) wealth we live in right now.

Patents have been a thing in the US since 1790 (even earlier, technically, as they are specifically called out in the constitution). What period of unencumbered free markets are you referring to?

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#33

Post by robertlagrant »

snotrockets wrote: post #23
rogerkirkness wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google doesn't do business in China because they won't agree to the privacy violating terms of doing so, that is at least a $1T principle if you compare it to the amount of hardware and services that Apple sells there.

Google’s executives would very much like to operate in China, only they faced public pressure (the term to search for is “project dragonfly”). I won’t be surprised if they’ll retry to enter China soon.

Public pressure vs $1tn. Hmm.

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#34

Post by Kbelicius »

donkers wrote: post #21
patentatt wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this dubious. Google is not known for respecting privacy, and large corporations in general are not known for voluntarily passing on trillion dollar markets on moral grounds. Is there perhaps an alternative explanation that isn't as far fetched?

This has some context on Google’s exit from China. They refused to censor the search engine to China’s liking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China#2010–2016:_Giving...

Only after they were hacked by China, before that they had no problems with censorship. They also had a plan to return. Doubt there were any principles in play when making decisions on their China operarions

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#35

Post by serf »

thebruce87m wrote: post #26
sandworm101 wrote: post #3

Absolutely no sympathy. Those who live by the patent shall die by the patent.

What’s the alternative? Not play the patent game and die by the patent anyway?

abiding by the laws and weaponizing the law for your own benefit are two different things.

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#36

Post by GeekyBear »

rogerkirkness wrote: post #5
fragmede wrote: post #4

I trust Apple's commitment to privacy as much as I do Google's, but when they both remove a product over a stupid patent rather than pay the patent holder (Sonos' sued Google with their multiroom audio patent), we can see that it's possible for corporations to hold principled views about things.

Google doesn't do business in China because they won't agree to the privacy violating terms of doing so, that is at least a $1T principle if you compare it to the amount of hardware and services that Apple sells there.

The only things that prevented Google from returning to the China market, were public pressure and an employee revolt.

> Google employees are calling on the company to cancel Project Dragonfly, an effort to create a censored search engine in China.

“Many of us accepted employment at Google with the company’s values in mind, including its previous position on Chinese censorship and surveillance, and an understanding that Google was a company willing to place its values above its profits,” an open letter signed by Google employees published Tuesday on Medium says. “After a year of disappointments including Project Maven, Dragonfly, and Google’s support for abusers, we no longer believe this is the case.”

Google’s Chinese search app would have reportedly complied with demands to remove content that the government ruled sensitive and linked users’ searches to their personal phone numbers.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/27/read-google-employees-open-l...

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#37

Post by bdowling »

hasty_pudding wrote: post #12

Why doesn't Apple enter into a deal with Masimo for a small percentage of the watch? Unless I missed it, the news article didn't go into more detail on why a deal couldn't be made.

That would be the obvious solution, but it’s not surprising they couldn’t agree on a price when they operate in very different industries. Masimo makes medical devices, ones whose prices are probably both high and skewed by insurance. Apple is a consumer devices company and may not be able to justify a high royalty price and still meet certain consumer price points. Another possibility is that Apple’s watches may be an alternative to Masimo’s expensive, high-margin devices, so a licensing deal could destroy Masimo’s entire business in the long run. So, coming to an agreement on price may have been impossible.

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#38

Post by Kbelicius »

nickpp wrote: post #17
snarf21 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many problems with software patents and patents that are "_____ but on a phone/watch" but I'm curious of what your solution is? What is a better system?

Unencumbered free markets. Same system that got us the unimaginable (just a few generations ago) wealth we live in right now.

> Unencumbered free markets. Same system that got us the unimaginable (just a few generations ago) wealth we live in right now.

When and where did we have these unencubered markets?

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#39

Post by layer8 »

jmyeet wrote: post #28
sandworm101 wrote: post #3

Absolutely no sympathy. Those who live by the patent shall die by the patent.

When has Apple ever sued over patent infringement? There was the Samsung case [1] but that was a design issue. Apple, Google, Meta and other big tech companies have used patents defensively not offensively . That is, as mutually-assured destruction. The real villains in this story are the patent holding companies that sue in East Texas to get in front of one judge that, at a time, heard a quarter of all US patent cas…

> When has Apple ever sued over patent infringement?

Apple vs. HTC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litigation_involving_Apple_Inc...

Normally, the threat implied by a patent moat is sufficient, so it doesn’t come to a lawsuit.

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#40

Post by smallstepforman »

donkers wrote: post #21
patentatt wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this dubious. Google is not known for respecting privacy, and large corporations in general are not known for voluntarily passing on trillion dollar markets on moral grounds. Is there perhaps an alternative explanation that isn't as far fetched?

This has some context on Google’s exit from China. They refused to censor the search engine to China’s liking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China#2010–2016:_Giving...

Google have a history of censorship in western countries, as evidenced by the scrubbing of all C19 alternative information which didn’t align with TPTB narratives.
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