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Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

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Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#31

Post by michaelochurch »

ryanmolden wrote: post #27
michaelochurch wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should encourage people like OP to speak up. For years, we've had a climate where people are terrified to speak up about unethical management practices, bad hiring and worse firing, and other idiocies within organizations where they've worked. Why? Why is the employee supposed to protect an employer that might have screwed him over royally? This is American Spring. People are speaking the fuck up, and it's…

Yeah, there is definitely a balance to strike between just venting your spleen and calling out real douchebaggery. I have always suspected the "never talk about being screwed over/speak ill of a previous employer" meme is strikingly similar to the kind of meme sociopaths would want to become "the norm". Absent anyone talking about their experiences (good or bad) there would really be much less downside for terrible b…

I have always suspected the "never talk about being screwed over/speak ill of a previous employer" meme is strikingly similar to the kind of meme sociopaths would want to become "the norm".

Not sociopathy. Managerial tribalism. To be fair, you probably wouldn't want to work with a company that didn't respect technical talent, right? Well, that goes both ways. Most people making hiring decisions are managers, and therefore don't want to hire someone who seems to dislike managerial authority. Managers and executives tend to protect their own.

I agree with the "no-badmouthing policy" on job interviews. In that context, time is so limited that wasting any on what went wrong at previous companies is just worthless. We're here to talk about the future, not the past. On the other hand, that principle shouldn't have to extend to all quarters of a person's life. I don't think OP is a loser because he failed at Microsoft, nor that he's a douchebag for exposing corporate silliness. I think he should have that right.

The disquieting thing about managerial tribalism is that the good protect the bad. No programmer would argue against the fact that there are some people in software engineering jobs who don't deserve to be there... but managers have a hard time admitting that the bottom 40% of their tribe (at least) are counterproductive, unethical, or even destructive.

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#32

Post by harryf »

Jare wrote: post #25
harryf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are ways to get changes made in Big Co. Very true. I have this book in my head that might one day get written. Title would be something like "Intreprenauring: Innovating within Large Stupid Organizations" with a focus on practical "hacks" for getting stuff done. Probably all been said by Dilbert already though.

Please kickstarter that book right away. Dilbert identifies problems but does not provide solutions, only an outlet for the rage.

That's a great idea. Now you've got me thinking... Initial hurdle is I'm in Europe, based in Switzerland and kickstarter T&C require US citizenship. Looking for solutions right now (anyone with advice appreciated)

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#33

Post by jsnell »

mtrimpe wrote: post #17
jsnell wrote: post #8

So these kinds of peeks inside a large company are fascinating in a voyeuristic sense, but it's best to not to take them too seriously. Even somebody with no ulterior motives will only have a experience of a narrow slice of the company. And it's even worse when there is an obvious reason for bias. Certainly much of what I've seen written about Google had little to with the reality I observed there, regardless of whet…

Could we please somehow make these incessant ad-hominem attacks against michaelochurch stop? I know it's backed up by 'a story only us Googlers know' that explains it all, but the whole thing is starting to get rather childish.

Sorry, I certainly didn't mean to pick on anyone (and that was after my time, so I don't know the story any more than you do).

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#34

Post by yuhong »

michaelochurch wrote: post #28

OP's story is unfortunate, but this is tame compared to some of the things I've seen or heard of in the past five years. If this is TC-worthy, I've seen enough dirt to fertilize the Sahara. This is a case of company and person who didn't work out, but it doesn't leave me feeling that Microsoft was unethical or mean-spirited about it (which is more than I can say of many, many companies). Badly run, sure, but not evil…

Personally I have been thinking that anti-discrimination laws are fundamentally flawed for a while now.

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#35

Post by WiseWeasel »

harryf wrote: post #32
Jare wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please kickstarter that book right away. Dilbert identifies problems but does not provide solutions, only an outlet for the rage.

That's a great idea. Now you've got me thinking... Initial hurdle is I'm in Europe, based in Switzerland and kickstarter T&C require US citizenship. Looking for solutions right now (anyone with advice appreciated)

There's always the tried-and-true option of writing it in your spare time, and then finding a publisher or self-publishing with Amazon or the like.

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#36

Post by funcktional »

Disclaimer: MS Employee To add to his comments about higher-ups dismissing his ideas. I don't know if the OP was in a technical role or not. But I regularly see emails from guys in my team with some radical new idea that they think will work. In 99.99% of the cases, the ideas don't work (Scalability issues, cost, complexity etc). It's very important for employees to also accept and see the flaws in your ideas rather than start bawling and throwing a fit. Likewise, it's very important for the leadership to keep encouraging these ideas no matter how stupid they are. Our partner/principal SDEs do just that. They're always open to new ideas. This probably varies wildly from team to team though.

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#38

Post by sudoscience »

michaelochurch wrote: post #28

OP's story is unfortunate, but this is tame compared to some of the things I've seen or heard of in the past five years. If this is TC-worthy, I've seen enough dirt to fertilize the Sahara. This is a case of company and person who didn't work out, but it doesn't leave me feeling that Microsoft was unethical or mean-spirited about it (which is more than I can say of many, many companies). Badly run, sure, but not evil…

No Game of Thrones spoilers, please!

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#39

Post by jey »

harryf wrote: post #32
Jare wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please kickstarter that book right away. Dilbert identifies problems but does not provide solutions, only an outlet for the rage.

That's a great idea. Now you've got me thinking... Initial hurdle is I'm in Europe, based in Switzerland and kickstarter T&C require US citizenship. Looking for solutions right now (anyone with advice appreciated)

Why not do it the normal way of submitting a proposal to suitable publishers?

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#40

Post by loverobots »

On one hand MS's huge cash cow can hide so many horrible decisions, but as a company they are doing great. Especially for a "dead" one. According to some bloggers they should have been decomposed by now but they are making almost $25 BILLION a year in pure profit, while investing in a lot of new stuff that can always be put in the market by another mgmt team (imagine what sits on those Microsoft Research labs /hard drives /notepads)

This company is becoming the McDonalds of computing. Cheap, mass products, available everywhere. No nutrients, no ideas, no culture.

I love McD's. I love getting the same burger almost anywhere in the world and it's exactly what I expect it to be. No, not cholesterol lowering food, if I want that I'll eat salmon or some other stuff. But McD's is great and it does what it promised.

Windows 8 is a fine example. The new Metro interface displays nonstop, trivial updates from Facebook, Twitter, news sites and stock tickers. Streams of raw noise distract users from the moment they login.

TURN it off on your system. The world is spending a gazillion hours on FB and Twitter, do you expect MS to ignore that? Image the "MS ignores reality on Windows 8" headlines had they not done this. Companies are notorious for moving slow, those wildly profitable even slower. Don't expect them to change a winning formula because you write a few emails. Start your own company and beat them.

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