"Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny • Hacker News Board

Re: "Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny

#31

Post by baggy_trough » Sat, Dec 23, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

chaosharmonic wrote: post #26

baggy_trough wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should that be banned? It's part of the transaction cost. People don't seem to understand that renting is, or should be, a voluntary transaction between a tenant and a landlord.

Posting to Craigslist because the landlords are too lazy to do it themselves is a reasonable part of the transaction cost? And the thing is that it's not voluntary any more than grocery shopping is. You can maybe make a point about where (sort of -- where I live, this practice is actually allowed statewide, so it's not strictly a rural/urban divide), but that's a separate axis from whether or not people need places t…

Yes, it is definitely reasonable. Why wouldn't it be?

I'm not sure what point you're making about Ticketmaster. That business is completely different from the rental market (for example, there are probably literally a million times as many providers).

Re: "Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny

#32

Post by chaosharmonic » Sat, Dec 23, 2023, 8:45 PM UTC

baggy_trough wrote: post #31

chaosharmonic wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posting to Craigslist because the landlords are too lazy to do it themselves is a reasonable part of the transaction cost? And the thing is that it's not voluntary any more than grocery shopping is. You can maybe make a point about where (sort of -- where I live, this practice is actually allowed statewide, so it's not strictly a rural/urban divide), but that's a separate axis from whether or not people need places t…

Yes, it is definitely reasonable. Why wouldn't it be? I'm not sure what point you're making about Ticketmaster. That business is completely different from the rental market (for example, there are probably literally a million times as many providers).

Both practices are effectively drip pricing, is my point. In the case of landlords you're right that there are a glut of "providers" (and I'm not sure I agree with that terminology per se but mechanically it works), but the thing you have to sift through a horde of ads for one that doesn't. And even then, it's largely guessing, because they're not actually required to tell you that in the ad itself -- sometimes you have to actually go through the whole process of reaching out to a human, maybe getting a response, and then finding out.

And unlike other up-front costs (first/last/security) it doesn't actually provide value to a tenant in any way. It's a third party that is really only acting on behalf of a landlord, never mind the part where we're talking about literal rent-seeking.

Essentially, it's deceptive advertising, that makes for a less fair and accessible marketplace to consumers. Especially in any remotely competitive rental market (which is a lot of them now, given the way prices have skyrocketed in recent years relative to pay), it's easy to get stuck paying an exorbitant fee simply for lack of a clear way to find out which places don't expect you to pay the third party they contracted.

And that's not a free market either.

Re: "Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny

#33

Post by SamoyedFurFluff » Sun, Dec 24, 2023, 1:16 AM UTC

fsckboy wrote: post #28

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #10

A reminder that anytime an outlandish or shocking sounding claim is made, to follow up on its veracity. Usually it is much less surprising. For example: that lady that sued McDonald’s for coffee being hot… sued because the coffee was hot enough to melt flesh, which she experienced firsthand. And don’t take my word for it because that, too, is shocking. 0. 0 - https://www.tortmuseum.org/liebeck-v-mcdonalds/

hot liquids can burn. people like hot coffee. takeout coffee cools relatively quickly. coffee is made with boiling water. What temperature should a coffeeshop serve their coffee at? Who is responsible for what? I think the case was overblown. Life has risks, assume them or don't leave your house. I understand that others might differ, they want only "safe" coffee to be served, but we're not looking at a "trolley prob…

Tbh if a coffee shop pours me coffee hot enough to melt the skin off my lips when I drink it, that’s too fucking hot.

Re: "Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny

#34

Post by baggy_trough » Mon, Dec 25, 2023, 5:42 PM UTC

chaosharmonic wrote: post #32

baggy_trough wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is definitely reasonable. Why wouldn't it be? I'm not sure what point you're making about Ticketmaster. That business is completely different from the rental market (for example, there are probably literally a million times as many providers).

Both practices are effectively drip pricing, is my point. In the case of landlords you're right that there are a glut of "providers" (and I'm not sure I agree with that terminology per se but mechanically it works), but the thing you have to sift through a horde of ads for one that doesn't. And even then, it's largely guessing, because they're not actually required to tell you that in the ad itself -- sometimes you h…

I agree with you that markets function better when prices are transparent, and that there is a potential positive role for carefully designed regulation to improve such matters.