Live data from Hacker News

The Loneliness of the Mid-Level Vimmer

johnwhiles.com

31–40 of 61 posts

Re: The Loneliness of the Mid-Level Vimmer

#31
post #23
post #11

I think vim users highly overestimate their productivity and just like the way using hotkeys feels.

This is a realization I had after finally ditching Emacs / keyboard only life. Keybindings seem to engage your brain in a different way and make the activity more fun, but I don't think it's actually any more productive.

Except in most cases I would say having more fun results in more productivity.

Re: The Loneliness of the Mid-Level Vimmer

#32
post #26
post #11

I think vim users highly overestimate their productivity and just like the way using hotkeys feels.

As someone who is a midelevel vimmer and has been using it for 20 years, that's probably true. But the muscle memory is there, and it's standard everywhere . I do get a lot of leverage out of macros and text objects, features which I'm sure have equivalents in IDEs and other editors, but I know how to use them in vim.

I don't think there are IDEs which are as scriptable as (neo)vim or emacs. Am I wrong?

Re: The Loneliness of the Mid-Level Vimmer

#33
Ha, I'm like this but moreso because I don't strongly professionally program. (I teach IT in a presently not super-technical program, and get a pretty good bit of freedom and variance in what I do.)

I feel the same way about vim that I do learning cursive; I honestly wish I could erase it from my brain because -- and it took a long time for me to figure this out -- it, for me, brings NO advantages.

Now, what would be nice is something as extensible and potentially light as vim but, first and foremost, played nice with other "regular people" programs and keybindings. Maybe it's out there, but I haven't found it yet.

Re: The Loneliness of the Mid-Level Vimmer

#34
post #11

I think vim users highly overestimate their productivity and just like the way using hotkeys feels.

It'd be interesting to do a comparison. But to your point, I don't think people use it as much for productivity gains as just the fun of it.

The time spent doing input is a tiny fraction of time spent coding, yes. However, it is all wasted time, and reducing it leaves more time free for thinking.

There are many syntax-aware vim verbs (ci[ or ci” for example) that save a lot of time and let me get back faster to thinking about the what and not the how. Too much time on the how and my ADD kicks in, sure as someone walking into my office and trying to talk to me.

Re: The Loneliness of the Mid-Level Vimmer

#35
post #12

Why can't you use vim and VSCode? I use the neovim extension for VSCode[1] and it works great! That gets me real vim input and the VSCode extension ecosystem. 1: https://github.com/vscode-neovim/vscode-neovim

For me, a major reason is the pervasive spyware baked into VSCode. A lot of the code I write are things I would prefer Microsoft and the US military-industrial complex (of which MS is a big part) not have any data about.

Re: The Loneliness of the Mid-Level Vimmer

#36
post #11

I think vim users highly overestimate their productivity and just like the way using hotkeys feels.

When I'm repeating something in a non-vim environment, it feels incredibly tedious to actually have to do the steps repeatedly instead of just pressing .

I don't care about the productivity, I do care about not doing tedious things.

Re: The Loneliness of the Mid-Level Vimmer

#37
post #11

I think vim users highly overestimate their productivity and just like the way using hotkeys feels.

Crazy hotkey sequences, yes. Basic sequences like ci"foobar or /foodwn... are a pretty great user experience - although it's true that your editing speed rarely determines the success or failure of the company.

Re: The Loneliness of the Mid-Level Vimmer

#38

I did 100% pair programming with a team that didn't standardize on editors or keyboards. We solved the issue in the article by just never using each other's machines. It was very rare that the navigator would want to type something but if they did, it was usually just a line or so, so we would "strong" pair, ie, tell the other person exactly what to type. If we wanted to switch the driver/navigator role, we would jus…

Unfortunately my employer doesn't allow force-pushing :( Instead we resort to using jetbrains stuff.

Same at my place. I think it’s for compliance reasons, but it feels patronising. A bit like taking away the sharp tools so us dummies cannot hurt ourselves. Next, maybe No-Code GUI programming because a real language is too scary too?

Re: The Loneliness of the Mid-Level Vimmer

#39
post #12

Why can't you use vim and VSCode? I use the neovim extension for VSCode[1] and it works great! That gets me real vim input and the VSCode extension ecosystem. 1: https://github.com/vscode-neovim/vscode-neovim

As a vim user since the 90s - this is what I've landed on. It pretty easy to disable the vim plugin if you're sharing your computer with a muggle.

Re: The Loneliness of the Mid-Level Vimmer

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately my employer doesn't allow force-pushing :( Instead we resort to using jetbrains stuff.

Same at my place. I think it’s for compliance reasons, but it feels patronising. A bit like taking away the sharp tools so us dummies cannot hurt ourselves. Next, maybe No-Code GUI programming because a real language is too scary too?

I understand not allowing force-pushing on main, but pretty weird for branches you own and no one else uses.
Post reply on HN