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Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

zachleat.com

31–38 of 38 posts

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#31

I was a happy Netlify user for years until they silently took down my app without warning. They blocked my account based on a bogus DMCA claim, the details of which point to a DIFFERENT app with a similar name. Unacceptable behavior from a hosting provider. I'll never use them again.

Is that other app still up?

Nope, the other app they mistake for mine was taken down too. Maybe with just cause, I don't know. All I know is my app was unrelated and innocent.

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#32

As someone who has pissed away thousands of team hours working with the next.js abomination I’m very happy to see Astro take off. I keep thinking “this looks like one of my very first terribly architected, organically created messes”. Astro may not be better, but just statistically speaking you probably aren’t going to be worse. Next is a house of cards. The architecture is as bad as the code base. The only features…

Anything specific? We use Next very successfully, and, well it almost became the main way to use React nowadays... pretty good track record for an "abomination". It's not 100% there, I dislike some features built around Vercel offerings (eg. middleware) but it's... a good idea.

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#33

As someone who has pissed away thousands of team hours working with the next.js abomination I’m very happy to see Astro take off. I keep thinking “this looks like one of my very first terribly architected, organically created messes”. Astro may not be better, but just statistically speaking you probably aren’t going to be worse. Next is a house of cards. The architecture is as bad as the code base. The only features…

Is this specific to Next.js app router? The pages router has been quite good to me, but the app router is something that matches your experience.

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#34

Thought experiment: assume the worst: next.js + eleventy is in decline; what does it change in the short-term? It is likely that people using those frameworks are getting things done in them. To me, the fact this whole discussion is happening illustrates how fickle devs are in this particular ecosystem. It's like nobody wants to be caught dead using something that might not be the new hotness.

React and NextJS are hardly "new hotness".

React has been dominant for at least ten years and NextJS for a good fraction of that.

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#35
post #34

Thought experiment: assume the worst: next.js + eleventy is in decline; what does it change in the short-term? It is likely that people using those frameworks are getting things done in them. To me, the fact this whole discussion is happening illustrates how fickle devs are in this particular ecosystem. It's like nobody wants to be caught dead using something that might not be the new hotness.

React and NextJS are hardly "new hotness". React has been dominant for at least ten years and NextJS for a good fraction of that.

You may be nit-picking here, but it underscores my point: this tech isn't going anywhere, and fretting about it is not productive.

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#36

As someone who has pissed away thousands of team hours working with the next.js abomination I’m very happy to see Astro take off. I keep thinking “this looks like one of my very first terribly architected, organically created messes”. Astro may not be better, but just statistically speaking you probably aren’t going to be worse. Next is a house of cards. The architecture is as bad as the code base. The only features…

Is this specific to Next.js app router? The pages router has been quite good to me, but the app router is something that matches your experience.

As an outsider: what exactly is it about "routers" that justifies so much change? Aren't there plenty of established designs to copy from other stateful UI frameworks?

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this specific to Next.js app router? The pages router has been quite good to me, but the app router is something that matches your experience.

As an outsider: what exactly is it about "routers" that justifies so much change? Aren't there plenty of established designs to copy from other stateful UI frameworks?

I think supporting React Server Components is at the core of this issue. A ton of changes were necessary to support RSC and a different router is just one of many things that changed. Important features have been sacrificed to make it happen. You for instance no longer have access to the request/ response object in middleware or layouts. Currently playing with Remix as an alternative.

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an outsider: what exactly is it about "routers" that justifies so much change? Aren't there plenty of established designs to copy from other stateful UI frameworks?

I think supporting React Server Components is at the core of this issue. A ton of changes were necessary to support RSC and a different router is just one of many things that changed. Important features have been sacrificed to make it happen. You for instance no longer have access to the request/ response object in middleware or layouts. Currently playing with Remix as an alternative.

We are using Remix at work. We are super happy with it. None of the nonsense artificial limitations of Next, great integration with express, and a really simple model which, if you ever used a traditional “MVC” framework, will make you feel right at home.
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