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Tell HN: iCloud Password Sync turns on by itself on iOS 17
31–40 of 46 posts
Re: Tell HN: iCloud Password Sync turns on by itself on iOS 17
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s a weird conspiracy theory. How does anyone figure Apple benefits from this. How is the setting even ‘user hostile’?
I consider sending anything up to the cloud without user's consent is pretty hostile. Passwords especially. I don't care if they claim it's E2EE; programmers and implementations are fallible and I thought a key part of Apple's whole value proposition is it's supposed to retain control in the user's hands.
> I consider sending anything up to the cloud without user's consent is pretty hostile.
If not illegal.
Re: Tell HN: iCloud Password Sync turns on by itself on iOS 17
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
They gave Apple authorization to access their phone (the phone is not Apple property) in order to copy certain things into the cloud. They uploaded new software and downloaded data they were not authorized to download without getting permission first. I'm sure there is some cover your ass clause in the EULA that tries to protect them when they (accidentally or on purpose) violate the CFAA, but, in this case, they pre…
That definition quickly becomes absurd. If I run "cat a.txt b.txt" but only give it authorization to read a.txt, does that mean Richard Stallman (or whoever wrote the program) is breaking the law? You might say consent is implied in that case but: 1. I thought implied consent was out of fashion these days 2. What if it's something like an IDE that reads the surrounding directories? VS code does that and I certainly d…
> 2. What if it's something like an IDE that reads the surrounding directories?
Reading the directory in a software running on your computer is not the problem. The question is, is data from the surrounding directories transmitted to somebody else's computer, a.k.a. The Cloud?
Re: Tell HN: iCloud Password Sync turns on by itself on iOS 17
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
The data wasn’t transmitted, communicated or delivered to Apple. It’s E2E encrypted, so Apple can’t receive it. The service isn’t capable of delivering the keychain to anything other than the user’s own devices.
Who do you think the other end is? It’s Apple. They are the other end where the traffic is decrypted. And yes they can see your stuff. We know this because law enforcement gets access to it all the time. The keychain is just another keystore.
Please don't spread lies.
> They are the other end where the traffic is decrypted
Only for certain types of data, with certain settings. That does not include the keychain.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651
> And yes they can see your stuff. We know this because law enforcement gets access to it all the time.
What law enforcement typically gets access to is iCloud Backups, which is not end-to-end encrypted by default (but can be) and is not a mandatory feature. iCloud backups do not contain your keychain.
> The keychain is just another keystore
Nobody has said anything else? But Apple does not hold the key to decrypt it.
Re: Tell HN: iCloud Password Sync turns on by itself on iOS 17
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a bad response to Apple stealing personal information from millions of people. OP is not alone when it comes to iCloud partially or completely enabling itself upon updates. The problem is that malware is perfectly legal as long as you have some EULA somewhere to cover it.
The hyperbole seems unnecessary and imo is unproductive.
You shouldn’t call it a hyperbole. Sometimes you have to point things out for what they are rather continue to pretend that it is normal.
Re: Tell HN: iCloud Password Sync turns on by itself on iOS 17
#36Software has bugs unfortunately.
This is a bad response to Apple stealing personal information from millions of people. OP is not alone when it comes to iCloud partially or completely enabling itself upon updates. The problem is that malware is perfectly legal as long as you have some EULA somewhere to cover it.
Personally I don't let Safari store anything, so there's nothing to sync, even if it was turned on without my consent.
Re: Tell HN: iCloud Password Sync turns on by itself on iOS 17
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't feel like a bug to me. After disabling iCloud Passwords I see a big nag in the Passwords menu asking me to enable it again; I don't remember that there on iOS 16. And when it was enabled there was a nag for Passkeys or password family sharing or something like that. I guess they want people to use that now. Also I don't understand how you could screw these things up repeatedly for so many features. iMessage i…
> Also I don't understand how you could screw these things up repeatedly for so many features. Seems like a generic bug in the settings system which is fairly complex. Pretty easy to see how something like that could happen.
Do these "generic bugs" ever happen the other way around? Meaning, do they ever disable any form of communication to Apple or are they always enabling?
Re: Tell HN: iCloud Password Sync turns on by itself on iOS 17
#38Imagine being in China and finding this out after an update.
I used an iPhone a few years ago and when setting it up, I made sure to turn off all iCloud stuff. When it was time to get a new phone, I noticed all my pictures were in iCloud.
I also did not like how hard it was to try and keep Bluetooth and Wifi turned off. Regularly it would nag me to connect to an open Wifi when I was sure I switched Wifi off completely. Turns out iOS re-enables both Wifi and Bluetooth after OS updates and you can't completely switch them off from the quick settings. If users privacy was so important, wouldn't you want to make sure all that stuff would not happen?
Also, it's good practice to reboot your phone one in a while, so why isn't there a reboot option in iOS?
Re: Tell HN: iCloud Password Sync turns on by itself on iOS 17
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who do you think the other end is? It’s Apple. They are the other end where the traffic is decrypted. And yes they can see your stuff. We know this because law enforcement gets access to it all the time. The keychain is just another keystore.
Please don't spread lies. > They are the other end where the traffic is decrypted Only for certain types of data, with certain settings. That does not include the keychain. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651 > And yes they can see your stuff. We know this because law enforcement gets access to it all the time. What law enforcement typically gets access to is iCloud Backups, which is not end-to-end encrypted by de…
Your link (Dec 14, 2023) says they E2E encrypt it and do not store escrow keys, but this link (May 13, 2022) says they store escrow keys for keychain:
https://support.apple.com/guide/security/secure-icloud-keych...
Did they announce this change? It's a pretty major UI departure. In particular, if you have one Apple device and loose it, the 2022 article implies you can recover your keychain, but the 2023 article says you're completely screwed.
A lot of people rely on iCloud backup. It seems like there should be a device-wide toggle that lets you choose between the two behaviors for things like passwords, health data, and all the other E2E apps.
Re: Tell HN: iCloud Password Sync turns on by itself on iOS 17
#40Imagine being in China and finding this out after an update. I used an iPhone a few years ago and when setting it up, I made sure to turn off all iCloud stuff. When it was time to get a new phone, I noticed all my pictures were in iCloud. I also did not like how hard it was to try and keep Bluetooth and Wifi turned off. Regularly it would nag me to connect to an open Wifi when I was sure I switched Wifi off completel…
> Also, it's good practice to reboot your phone one in a while, so why isn't there a reboot option in iOS?
Out of curiosity, what is the advantage of rebooting your phone? I disn't do it for a couple of months and I don't see what gets "better".
Besides, turning it off and on again will reboot it too. Just slighty more inconvienent :)