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He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

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Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#31

Post by automatic6131 »

jackdaniel wrote: post #27
throwawaysleep wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not surprising that it will go badly. Most of us have some secrets to hide, so the individuals that make up society have an incentive to exclude such people from their lives. I couldn’t trust a whistleblower. While grateful for a lot of the work they do, I never want to be their target and would never risk getting close to them.

While I disagree with your opinion, I appreciate a lot that you've stated it. That's a very honest thing to say.

>I appreciate a lot that you've stated it

Well, from an anonymous account, it means jack. Bull, even.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#32

Post by ejb999 »

mrweasel wrote: post #10
sgjohnson wrote: post #6

Slavery is de-facto legal in China and their justice system is rotten to the core. Is this really news to anyone? I would be surprised if this had ended differently.

The slavery and working conditions in China no longer really surprises me, what I do struggle to understand is that Western companies apparently DO NOT CARE. I can sort of accept, reluctantly, that the Chinese have a different way to thinking than I do and that I can't necessarily apply my moral code to China. What I cannot accept or understand is that the owners and managers of Western companies, who supposedly shar…

talk about mental gymnastics - you just said

"I can sort of accept, reluctantly, that the Chinese have a different way to thinking than I do and that I can't necessarily apply my moral code to China."

so, give them a pass with what they are doing and then criticize others that are giving them the same pass, and also choose to profit from it.

What about people who buy stuff made in China? do they get a pass too? So the only party at fault is the middle-man? slave owners get a pass, consumers that enable the slave owners get a pass and the only party at fault is the evil middle-man corporations?

If its wrong, its wrong for all parties, if its OK, its OK for all parties.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#33

Post by gorbachev »

docflabby wrote: post #11

In a world run by sociopaths - whistleblowing is a trap to catch the people who could if instead of reporting the issues, they organised together and then could stop you... I've yet to see any whistleblowing case not end badly.

https://constantinecannon.com/whistleblower/top-ten-whistleb...

https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-89

https://nymag.com/vindicated/2016/11/sherry-hunt-took-on-one...

Some (many?) of those folks did suffer discrimination and even outright persecution from their employers, and horrible financial strain before the eventual payout, but their cases eventually ended up quite well for them.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#34

Post by krageon »

mrweasel wrote: post #10
sgjohnson wrote: post #6

Slavery is de-facto legal in China and their justice system is rotten to the core. Is this really news to anyone? I would be surprised if this had ended differently.

The slavery and working conditions in China no longer really surprises me, what I do struggle to understand is that Western companies apparently DO NOT CARE. I can sort of accept, reluctantly, that the Chinese have a different way to thinking than I do and that I can't necessarily apply my moral code to China. What I cannot accept or understand is that the owners and managers of Western companies, who supposedly shar…

The west is built on the back of slavery, and this has never changed. It has just been moved to where we don't need to see it.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#35

Post by krageon »

zaggynl wrote: post #14
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As our report describes in detail, the labor conditions of incarcerated workers in many U.S. prisons violate the most fundamental human rights to life and dignity,” said Clinical Prof. Claudia Flores, the director of the Global Human Rights Clinic. “In any other workplace, these conditions would be shocking and plainly unlawful https://news.uchicago.edu/story/us-prison-labor-programs-vio...

Whataboutism and you're comparing a factory to a prison.

A prison that builds things is a factory. It's insight into the fact that in fact the norms are no different in the US.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#36

Post by monsieurbanana »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #24
PaulKeeble wrote: post #16

My experience of whistleblowing even here in the west is that usually it goes very very badly. The only real thing open to you is to refuse to do anything unethical, quit and walk away. Many people can't afford to do that. Things ought to be different but we live in corrupt societies where the law is different for the rich and powerful than for everyone else.

Not surprising that it will go badly. Most of us have some secrets to hide, so the individuals that make up society have an incentive to exclude such people from their lives. I couldn’t trust a whistleblower. While grateful for a lot of the work they do, I never want to be their target and would never risk getting close to them.

No, most of us don't have that kind of secrets.

I have secrets, but if someone were to leak them nobody would seriously employ the term "whisteblower".

Implying that because someone doesn't want to stay quiet when he sees unethical/unlawful things they can't be trusted on a personal level is a dehumanizing thing to say.

I might be breaking a rule here, but this comment could probably be found verbatim in some company's playbook to discourage whiteblowing.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#37

Post by jackdaniel »

automatic6131 wrote: post #31
jackdaniel wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I disagree with your opinion, I appreciate a lot that you've stated it. That's a very honest thing to say.

>I appreciate a lot that you've stated it Well, from an anonymous account, it means jack. Bull, even.

People often lie not only to others, but also to themselves. Also I don't see a problem with somewhat controversial takes from anonymous accounts; given today's internet opposite would be brave/stupid.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#38

Post by whitepaint »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #24
PaulKeeble wrote: post #16

My experience of whistleblowing even here in the west is that usually it goes very very badly. The only real thing open to you is to refuse to do anything unethical, quit and walk away. Many people can't afford to do that. Things ought to be different but we live in corrupt societies where the law is different for the rich and powerful than for everyone else.

Not surprising that it will go badly. Most of us have some secrets to hide, so the individuals that make up society have an incentive to exclude such people from their lives. I couldn’t trust a whistleblower. While grateful for a lot of the work they do, I never want to be their target and would never risk getting close to them.

And I couldn't trust someone who couldn't trust a whistleblower. Like what the hell did you do that you really don't want others to find out..?

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#39

Post by jongjong »

I've never worked for any major tech corporation. I've had opportunities to apply to Amazon and Facebook but never followed through with any of them. It's partly for moral reasons but also partly out of fear because I'm worried about what that would look like on my record in 10 or 20 years' time if the world returns to sanity. We've seen what happens to members of distrusted groups during periods of social upheaval. I just cannot bring myself to bet on never-ending insanity. I cannot imagine such world. I'm already worried about my background in tech causing problems.

Admittedly, I couldn't imagine the world we have today 10 years ago and I can't imagine the world in 10 years time if it continues down that path. I just don't see the point. I don't want to be rich in such a hypothetical hell hole so my mind doesn't see the point going there.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#40

Post by bantunes »

Xelbair wrote: post #21
mrweasel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The slavery and working conditions in China no longer really surprises me, what I do struggle to understand is that Western companies apparently DO NOT CARE. I can sort of accept, reluctantly, that the Chinese have a different way to thinking than I do and that I can't necessarily apply my moral code to China. What I cannot accept or understand is that the owners and managers of Western companies, who supposedly shar…

they care about profit. they have to. At least in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co .

This argument always felt like a cop-out to me.

"Amazon is squeezing employees for maximum profit!" "Yes, they have to maximize profit by law" right, but there are also laws against union-busting, about workplace safety, etc, etc however _for some reason_ these other laws are second tier to a corporation's legal profit mandate.

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