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Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

theguardian.com

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Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#31

Post by trabant00 »

underseacables wrote: post #3

When you look at the electorate of the PVV in general, it consists of people who experience more difficulties to get by. They are more lonely... Sounds rather condescending. I don't like it when armchair experts place such subjective labels on people. "Lonely, less intelligent," etc. It's second guessing a persons vote which is a tacit way of undermining that vote. Rather they should analyze policy and try to underst…

While I worry about the recent success populism is having in Europe I too take issue with the way the politicians and their voters get presented in media. "Far right" is overused, worries about massive uncontrolled immigration played down and attributed to racism, etc. People don't just start voting populists out of thin air. They face some real issues. Ignoring those and resorting to labels will only push them further into populism and maybe some real extremist politics since there's nobody else addressing their concerns.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#32

Post by ghusto »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #15
Garvi wrote: post #4

[flagged]

Would you care to elaborate? I find two distinct reasons why people may dislike or speak against a news source : 1. Quality of investigation, journalism, writing, reportage 2. disagreement with overt or subtle position, bias and perspective Fwiw, Without detail, your comment is automatically presumed in category 2. I for one find guardian very opinionated and biased, but eminently readable. It has a very overt perspe…

I automatically filtered it out precisely because I believe what the (interestingly downvoted to near white) parent says; it's closer to an entertainment source than a news source. They picked their audience, and the headlines are written accordingly, then follows some words to make up the article — or at least that how it always reads to me.

It's the left-wing equivalent of the Daily Mail.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#33

Post by blululu »

underseacables wrote: post #3

When you look at the electorate of the PVV in general, it consists of people who experience more difficulties to get by. They are more lonely... Sounds rather condescending. I don't like it when armchair experts place such subjective labels on people. "Lonely, less intelligent," etc. It's second guessing a persons vote which is a tacit way of undermining that vote. Rather they should analyze policy and try to underst…

In general the trope of a smug liberal is a thing, but I think you made the jump to intelligence:

>>Matthijs Rooduijn, associate professor of political science at Amsterdam University, says such views are common among Wilders voters. “When you look at the electorate of the PVV in general, it consists of people who experience more difficulties to get by. They are more lonely. They feel that they are being neglected. They have tough lives basically, economically but also culturally,” he said.

Of course this trope doesn’t come from nowhere, but this is a professor of political science, who said nothing disrespectful about the intelligence of the group. I am inclined to think that the observation is based on some research findings and has some relevance.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#34

Post by selimthegrim »

YiraldyGuber wrote: post #20
underseacables wrote: post #3

When you look at the electorate of the PVV in general, it consists of people who experience more difficulties to get by. They are more lonely... Sounds rather condescending. I don't like it when armchair experts place such subjective labels on people. "Lonely, less intelligent," etc. It's second guessing a persons vote which is a tacit way of undermining that vote. Rather they should analyze policy and try to underst…

[flagged]

How are they being displaced?

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#35

Post by lotsofpulp »

rutierut wrote: post #11
underseacables wrote: post #3

When you look at the electorate of the PVV in general, it consists of people who experience more difficulties to get by. They are more lonely... Sounds rather condescending. I don't like it when armchair experts place such subjective labels on people. "Lonely, less intelligent," etc. It's second guessing a persons vote which is a tacit way of undermining that vote. Rather they should analyze policy and try to underst…

I appreciate the sentiment but the idea that people support policy that’s good for them isn’t much better either. For an obvious example check how many people support the Affordable Care Act vs Obamacare.

> For an obvious example check how many people support the Affordable Care Act vs Obamacare.

100%, since they are the same thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Care_Act

Also, the ACA has undoubtedly resulted in more people getting more healthcare than in pre-ACA. The provisions to require covering people with pre existing health conditions and eliminating out of pocket maximums are a massive improvement over the pre-ACA days.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#36

Post by timeon »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #30
ChatGTP wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PVV proposes to stop all immigration Is there a documented case in history where this has been beneficial ? Not attacking you btw, I'm actually wondering if anyone has known this to be effective? Immigrants seem like a token thing to get angry about when the chips are down and the country is mismanaged.

Poland. > Immigrants seem like a token thing to get angry about when the chips are down and the country is mismanaged. This has been the primary opinion of center to leftleaning parties for a decade now. There are very real problems with immigration, even more so if a large part of immigration consists of migrations of cultures that are incompatible with western ideas.

In many EU countries one of largest immigrant group is from Poland.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#37

Post by Kognito »

YiraldyGuber wrote: post #20
underseacables wrote: post #3

When you look at the electorate of the PVV in general, it consists of people who experience more difficulties to get by. They are more lonely... Sounds rather condescending. I don't like it when armchair experts place such subjective labels on people. "Lonely, less intelligent," etc. It's second guessing a persons vote which is a tacit way of undermining that vote. Rather they should analyze policy and try to underst…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#38

Post by longdudefromnl »

misja111 wrote: post #16

Weird to read a post here from a foreign newspaper trying to describe what happened in my own country. But largely it's true, many people are unhappy with the amount of migration, the housing crisis, the rising cost of living and also what they feel is too much environmentalism. They feel that the parties that were in the government during the last 10 years did not take their concerns seriously or even made them wors…

Quote: Again this regulation comes from the EU so NL can't just change it

This is -I think- (one of) the main reasons people voted PVV. We (the Dutch people) can't even make their own decisions! And when things fall apart (and they are: housing, inflation, too much environmentalism, declining healthcare, etc) this is exactly what we need: make decisions to fix this. But we 'can't' because of EU. This is extremely angering and fueled the rise of PVV. And don't get me wrong: I'm one of them. And no, I'm not 'far right'. I just want to fix things. If you can't take care of yourself, you can't help others.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#39

Post by throwaway6734 »

ChatGTP wrote: post #25
misja111 wrote: post #16

Weird to read a post here from a foreign newspaper trying to describe what happened in my own country. But largely it's true, many people are unhappy with the amount of migration, the housing crisis, the rising cost of living and also what they feel is too much environmentalism. They feel that the parties that were in the government during the last 10 years did not take their concerns seriously or even made them wors…

PVV proposes to stop all immigration Is there a documented case in history where this has been beneficial ? Not attacking you btw, I'm actually wondering if anyone has known this to be effective? Immigrants seem like a token thing to get angry about when the chips are down and the country is mismanaged.

Refugees from Africa and the middle east have struggled to assimilate, require more state resources, and generally commit crimes at a higher rate than natives and immigrants from other areas.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#40

Post by pelasaco »

I'm not from the Netherlands, but Geert Wilders' biography on Wikipedia suggests he has a more diverse background and life story compared to many German politicians, which is intriguing and seems at odds with media portrayals.

However, I'm curious about his educational background. His credentials from the Open Universiteit, listed as 'Rechtsgeleerdheid (deelcertificaten),' appear to be partial certifications rather than a full degree. if it is true, as it looks, it reflects a broader trend in Europe of politicians having limited formal education, a sad and recurring phenomenon regardless of their political stance"...

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