Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

metafilter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 53 posts

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#31

Post by forza »

henrikschroder wrote: post #28
elemeno wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue it's because they're universally rather dull. On a technical level, demos are highly impressive and how they manage to overcome the limitations imposed by the scene to create the works that they do is ingenious, but it doesn't make the resulting product interesting from an artistic viewpoint. For me at least, the glaring weakness is the lack of narrative - there's no stories being told, there's nothing that…

> how they manage to overcome the limitations imposed by the scene It's pretty telling that the scene adapted to the increased hardware by imposing their own limitations instead of anything-goes. If we can't be wowed by what they do on limited hardware, we have to be wowed by what they can do under their own very harsh limitations.

I'm not sure what you are referring to. 4k/64k have been around for a long time, close to 20 years. Demos are generally "anything goes" and for anything else there are usually a "wild compo".

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#32

Post by 127 »

Cushman wrote: post #7
DrJokepu wrote: post #2

I used to be the coder of a small demoscene team in the early 2000's. I never had as much fun writing computer programs ever since then. It was creating awesome stuff just for the sake of awesomeness.

What do you think is stopping demos from taking off as a serious commercial art form? Just culture, or something more fundamental?

Because people see them simply as computer animation with pre-recorded music. They don't understand the algorithmic beauty inside.

I don't think demos will ever have a wide mass-appeal, even while being one of the most demanding and beautiful of art-forms (in my opinion).

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#33

Post by Jare »

mjn wrote: post #19
Cushman wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But strictly demos are non-interactive, right? That's the question I have: Is there a market for a pure-digital multimedia art form beside games?

Some demos have interactive components I believe, though I'm having trouble digging up a prominent example at the moment. Not as games per se, but in the sense that the graphics/audio can change procedurally in response to keystrokes. As far as non-interactive demo-style stuff, markets pop up occasionally for procedural/generative art, which is related, though again with less focus on compactness (except when necessa…

Our Heartquake back in '94 had a flyby sequence over a voxel landscape. The path was predesigned, but you could take control at any moment by pressing keys or the mouse. I thought more demos would incorporate such optional interactivity in more subtle ways and more types of effects (ours was kind of obvious), but it didn't happen.

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#34

Post by Jare »

pheon wrote: post #5
DrJokepu wrote: post #2

I used to be the coder of a small demoscene team in the early 2000's. I never had as much fun writing computer programs ever since then. It was creating awesome stuff just for the sake of awesomeness.

same here but mid 90`s oh the nostalgia. Kinda surprising, demogroups were kinda like small startups at least on the production side. biz side/product development/customer development/etc etc ... non existent, guess that`s why it was so fun. Still great learning experience for a kid.

At Iguana we even had a QA department!

But yeah it was nothing like a startup because there were no responsibilities or requirements, everyone just did whatever they wanted, when they wanted, how they wanted, and if it gelled into a demo, then great. It was all about exploring shared interests and having fun.

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#35

Post by ChrisNorstrom »

THIS (http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/kkrieger-chapter-1/scr...) Entire game (interactive demoscene) is only 96kb. It's all procedurally generated which is what demoscene is all about. Everything you see, sound, music, textures, models, is just code. No images or audio what-so-ever. Just algorithms that generate shapes within shapes, within shapes. Like fractals almost.

I was devastated to find the group's website is gone and the game's page no longer on the internet. For those of you who want to experience it I've got it on my server here: http://data.chrisnorstrom.com/hosting/kkrieger-beta.zip. They were probably the best group out there. Looks like they closed up show because their site theprodukt is closed for good.

I knew a really good Demoscene coder, and he introduced the culture to me. He worked on synthetic procedurally generated voices (which is really hard). But the problem is that the bar to entry is extremely high because it's all algorithms and the culture is all about fun, not profit. So the community stays small. Why spend months making lights and patterns react to music in a 64kb file when you can make a 200mb game or animated and sell it. The means do not justify the ends, thus most people will never know the awesomeness of demoscene.

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#36

Post by jimminy »

ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #35

THIS ( http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/kkrieger-chapter-1/scr... ) Entire game (interactive demoscene) is only 96kb. It's all procedurally generated which is what demoscene is all about. Everything you see, sound, music, textures, models, is just code. No images or audio what-so-ever. Just algorithms that generate shapes within shapes, within shapes. Like fractals almost. I was devastated to find the group's we…

A lot of the members of .theprodukkt joined Farbrausch[1]. You can still find the productions by that team, including .kkrieger on the Farbrausch site[2].

[1] http://www.farb-rausch.de/ [2] http://www.farb-rausch.de/prod.py?which=114

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#37

Post by Centigonal »

jimminy wrote: post #36
ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #35

THIS ( http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/kkrieger-chapter-1/scr... ) Entire game (interactive demoscene) is only 96kb. It's all procedurally generated which is what demoscene is all about. Everything you see, sound, music, textures, models, is just code. No images or audio what-so-ever. Just algorithms that generate shapes within shapes, within shapes. Like fractals almost. I was devastated to find the group's we…

A lot of the members of .theprodukkt joined Farbrausch[1]. You can still find the productions by that team, including .kkrieger on the Farbrausch site[2]. [1] http://www.farb-rausch.de/ [2] http://www.farb-rausch.de/prod.py?which=114

IIRC, .theprodukkt is/was Farbrausch's commercial "arm."'

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#38

Post by Centigonal »

Woooooooaaaah! A demoscene link appears on HN! I'm really excited that you guys seem to be interested in this!

You guys should watch this movie! http://molemanfilm.com/about-moleman/about-moleman-2/

It's very good, and also on Youtube. It'll tell you all about the demoscene! you'll enjoy it!

-mkC/3LN: The clumsiest ever

Note: This post used to have a lot of redundancy inside of it, but that's gone now!

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#39

Post by ChrisNorstrom »

jimminy wrote: post #36
ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #35

THIS ( http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/kkrieger-chapter-1/scr... ) Entire game (interactive demoscene) is only 96kb. It's all procedurally generated which is what demoscene is all about. Everything you see, sound, music, textures, models, is just code. No images or audio what-so-ever. Just algorithms that generate shapes within shapes, within shapes. Like fractals almost. I was devastated to find the group's we…

A lot of the members of .theprodukkt joined Farbrausch[1]. You can still find the productions by that team, including .kkrieger on the Farbrausch site[2]. [1] http://www.farb-rausch.de/ [2] http://www.farb-rausch.de/prod.py?which=114

Oh thank you. I thought their stuff was lost forever. Ever since Sonique and its hundreds of skins and visualization plugins where taken off the internet a few years back I no longer trust anyone to archive anything. I literally download my favorite YouTube videos as well, as many disappear over time.

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#40

Post by jimminy »

Centigonal wrote: post #37
jimminy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the members of .theprodukkt joined Farbrausch[1]. You can still find the productions by that team, including .kkrieger on the Farbrausch site[2]. [1] http://www.farb-rausch.de/ [2] http://www.farb-rausch.de/prod.py?which=114

IIRC, .theprodukkt is/was Farbrausch's commercial "arm."'

You're right. I just did a quick search, and didn't double check the info.
Post reply on HN