The story of titanium • Hacker News Board

Re: The story of titanium

#31

Post by MeImCounting » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:32 PM UTC

saberience wrote: post #22

AlotOfReading wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steel's strength varies by orders of magnitude depending on the alloy and heat treatment. It's an incredibly flexible family of materials. Some members of that family are far stronger than anything in the titanium family, e.g. 4340 steel has a nominal yield strength of >1800 MPa, compared to <1300 MPa for Ti 10-2-3.

We're not talking about exotic and expensive varieties of steel though. We're just talking about "general" or common steel and comparing it to unalloyed "common"/"general" titanium. Remember, Steel is itself an alloy, Titanium is an element. If you start comparing Titanium alloys to Steel then the comparison gets even harder. Titanium alloys are in general stronger than steel as well as much lighter and more corrosio…

Pure elemental titanium has much less desirable material properties than various titanium alloys which are what you encounter most commonly. It is very uncommon to encounter elemental titanium outside of a chemistry lab.

Re: The story of titanium

#32

Post by kylehotchkiss » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:33 PM UTC

303uru wrote: post #12

Love titanium, something so cool about it. It’s like steel with no downsides. I’ve got 5 ti bikes and a few ti watches, one of my favorite pieces though is my snow peak double wall titanium mug.

Do your bikes have carbon forks or TI? when I looked at TI bikes for fun in the past, the carbon forks surprised me, seemed like that should have been titanium too. How has your mug held up? Has it been compatibly durable compared to steel vacuum mugs? Snow peak makes great products but leans more lightweight than durable from my experience with their dishware

Re: The story of titanium

#33

Post by 303uru » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:33 PM UTC

JonChesterfield wrote: post #14

303uru wrote: post #12

Love titanium, something so cool about it. It’s like steel with no downsides. I’ve got 5 ti bikes and a few ti watches, one of my favorite pieces though is my snow peak double wall titanium mug.

What makes the mug particularly good? Always interested in something to improve coffee and recently broke my favourite one.

It’s super light, about the same weight as single wall stainless cup. The mouthfeel is nice, hot coffee doesn’t make the titanium feel as hot as steel gets and the feel is more similar to ceramic than stainless steel. It cleans up really nice and truly doesn’t stain. I even used a dc transformer to do some custom anodizing on mine and it looks really cool.

Re: The story of titanium

#34

Post by kylehotchkiss » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:34 PM UTC

Ingaz wrote: post #24

Great article! Sad it's so USA-centric. It would be great to read "Soviet part" of titanium

The real story now is how China centric it is - a lot of the worlds machining capabilities for it are still only there.

Re: The story of titanium

#35

Post by kylehotchkiss » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:35 PM UTC

latchkey wrote: post #4

This is the 5th time this story has been posted here. None of the other times received any comments and only a few points.

It started with the titanium iPhone didn’t it? Maybe more people have begun to understand the benefits practically

Re: The story of titanium

#36

Post by petertodd » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:36 PM UTC

saberience wrote: post #23

petertodd wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read this for starters: https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/metals-metal-products/ste... "When comparing the tensile yield strengths of titanium and steel, an interesting fact occurs; steel is by-and-large stronger than titanium." Many people confuse this issue, because they're actually talking about measures of strength/weight ratios, on which titanium does really well. But if you are size limited rather than weight…

Every source says that titanium is as strong as the most commonly used steel. Sure if you're going for lesser used alloys of steel you may as well compare to lesser used alloys of titanium. Or just compare iron with titanium, as that's really comparing one element with another, and is the "fair" comparison. And anyway, your original comment suggested someone was totally in the wrong for thinking a 4mm titanium plate…

> They wouldn't make plane engines from it if it wasn't.

...but they don't! Jet engines can only use titanium for certain low pressure, low temperature, sections. The high temperature parts are made from nickle/iron-based superalloys. And aluminum still gets significant usage, because for many geometries an aluminum part has a better strength/weight ratio.

Like I said, titanium is strong. But it's not magic. Stronger than any aluminum alloy, weaker than commonly used steel alloys. Hitting a 4mm plate of titanium with a hammer just isn't a very special experience. I've done it.

Hitting a 4mm tool steel plate definitely can be a special experience. Because it's so strong and hard that you could easily cause the thing to shatter, sending sharp shards in unpredictable directions...

Re: The story of titanium

#37

Post by MeImCounting » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:37 PM UTC

saberience wrote: post #23

petertodd wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read this for starters: https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/metals-metal-products/ste... "When comparing the tensile yield strengths of titanium and steel, an interesting fact occurs; steel is by-and-large stronger than titanium." Many people confuse this issue, because they're actually talking about measures of strength/weight ratios, on which titanium does really well. But if you are size limited rather than weight…

Every source says that titanium is as strong as the most commonly used steel. Sure if you're going for lesser used alloys of steel you may as well compare to lesser used alloys of titanium. Or just compare iron with titanium, as that's really comparing one element with another, and is the "fair" comparison. And anyway, your original comment suggested someone was totally in the wrong for thinking a 4mm titanium plate…

No the parent is correct. Steel is by and large stronger than titanium of the same size. Pray tell what is this "most commonly used alloy of steel"? Because just fyi different steel alloys are used for different applications just like different titanium alloys are also used for different applications.

Titanium has excellent strength to weight properties compared to steel. A 4mm titanium plate would absolutely be dented by common shop hammers. This doesnt mean that "titanium isnt strong" it just means they have different material properties.

Re: The story of titanium

#38

Post by petertodd » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:40 PM UTC

MeImCounting wrote: post #37

saberience wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every source says that titanium is as strong as the most commonly used steel. Sure if you're going for lesser used alloys of steel you may as well compare to lesser used alloys of titanium. Or just compare iron with titanium, as that's really comparing one element with another, and is the "fair" comparison. And anyway, your original comment suggested someone was totally in the wrong for thinking a 4mm titanium plate…

No the parent is correct. Steel is by and large stronger than titanium of the same size. Pray tell what is this "most commonly used alloy of steel"? Because just fyi different steel alloys are used for different applications just like different titanium alloys are also used for different applications. Titanium has excellent strength to weight properties compared to steel. A 4mm titanium plate would absolutely be dent…

Exactly.

Indeed, if your design goal is strictly "don't get dented when hit by a hammer", the "strongest" material could easily be a good synthetic rubber!

Re: The story of titanium

#39

Post by MeImCounting » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

I collect nice pocket knives. Many nice pocket knives are made from titanium and other fancy materials like carbon fiber. I love titanium above all other metals for its unique properties in being anodized and finished in a large variety of beautiful ways. If you are ever interested in seeing some truly unique and beautiful titanium finishes check out "Knife Modders" on instagram. Combinations of coatings/anodizing/laser etching can produce some truly beautiful pieces.

Re: The story of titanium

#40

Post by bch » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:44 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #28

petertodd wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot heavier actually. In an application like a stepladder, you have to work with certain minimum dimensions for the stepladder to be practical (eg rungs and sides have to fit in the hands nicely). You also have to have certain minimum thicknesses on the parts to have sufficient resistance to local deformation (eg dropping a hammer on the rungs). That forces the parts to be significantly larger and stronger than the…

If you can 3D print titanium, then you can make a honeycomb structure overcoming this problem.

What is the response to stress by this build method? Will it fail gracefully over a lifetime of stresses? Any single big stress-event?

In terms of (rigid, diamond-frame) bicycles, this is why I’m still firmly in the steel camp. No aluminium, no carbon; just steel. It really does have an excellent combination of nice ride quality, low weight, high strength, good failure mode (I’ve broken a few frames, and they tend to just bend/sag, vs the rapid unscheduled disassembling of carbon/Al).