US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case • Hacker News Board

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#31

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 8:46 PM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #8

I know this is how the US operates, still it's weird to trade cash for criminal allegations. Especially when Binance has been so vilified. I'm not defending Binance, rather, it feels like the SEC rhetoric went past the point where a fine is appropriate. Unless they are only proposing it so they can't be accused of not giving them the same treatment that everyone else gets.

> I know this is how the US operates, still it's weird to trade cash for criminal allegations.

I would imagine that the US is not unique in either (1) making corporations liable for crime, or (2) having the principal sanction against the corporation itself for any crime be either monetary or a combination of monetary sanction and injunction or similar behavioral controls.

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#32

Post by arcticbull » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 8:46 PM UTC

inhumantsar wrote: post #21

pavlov wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the deal would be more like probation where Binance would remain monitored after paying the fine: "If Binance and the DOJ agree on a deferred-prosecution-agreement, the Justice Department would file a criminal complaint against the company. The US would not go forward with a prosecution as long as the company meets prescribed conditions, which usually include paying a substantial penalty and agreeing to…

Residing in the UAE also wouldn't prevent extraordinary rendition should it come to that...

No need to go that far. The lack of an extradition treaty doesn’t preclude extradition. Instead of having a formalized process in place it would have to be done case by case. This is a common misconception about extradition treaties in general.

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#33

Post by chollida1 » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 8:49 PM UTC

monero-xmr wrote: post #13

$80 billion in profit and a $4 billion fine! American justice at its finest.

Can you explain how you came to that number?

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#34

Post by advisedwang » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 9:11 PM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #8

I know this is how the US operates, still it's weird to trade cash for criminal allegations. Especially when Binance has been so vilified. I'm not defending Binance, rather, it feels like the SEC rhetoric went past the point where a fine is appropriate. Unless they are only proposing it so they can't be accused of not giving them the same treatment that everyone else gets.

Lets say this goes to trial and Binance is convicted. What will the sentence be? A fine. Allowing them to pay now without the trial basically is like a plea deal (or pleading guilty for a reduced sentence). Presumably this is less than the DoJ thinks the fine+court costs would be if they went to trial.

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#35

Post by dmix » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 9:14 PM UTC

costco wrote: post #16

Wow, I was expecting about half that. I think this would be the second largest DPA ever. BNP Paribas paid $9 billion, Airbus paid $3.9 billion, Wells Fargo $3 billion, ... I wonder if the SEC/CFTC stuff will be resolved too. That's the deal BitMEX got but this case is way more substantial than just not registering as a money transmitter.

Maybe it's an opening bid that could be negotiated down to 50%. Half kidding.

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#36

Post by TacticalCoder » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 9:14 PM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #8

I know this is how the US operates, still it's weird to trade cash for criminal allegations. Especially when Binance has been so vilified. I'm not defending Binance, rather, it feels like the SEC rhetoric went past the point where a fine is appropriate. Unless they are only proposing it so they can't be accused of not giving them the same treatment that everyone else gets.

> I know this is how the US operates, still it's weird to trade cash for criminal allegations.

It's not just the US. Spain is accusing Shakira of financial fraud (spending more than 183 days over a year from 2012 to 2014 in Spain --for she had a spanish lover--, without paying her taxes in Spain) and she had to pay something like 16 millions plus six months in jail but they recently settled on an additional 8 millions or something and no jail time.

I mean: it's not exactly the same but they still traded cash for part of the sentence.

P.S: Spain is also apparently now going after her for year 2018.

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#37

Post by Scoundreller » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 9:14 PM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #32

inhumantsar wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Residing in the UAE also wouldn't prevent extraordinary rendition should it come to that...

No need to go that far. The lack of an extradition treaty doesn’t preclude extradition. Instead of having a formalized process in place it would have to be done case by case. This is a common misconception about extradition treaties in general.

And sometimes you’re safe despite the existence of an extradition treaty. France has a bunch of extradition treaties but they’ll only let them be used against non-citizens.

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#38

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 9:19 PM UTC

ecommerceguy wrote: post #25

4 billion and continue being an inflation sink (dollar destruction) and the deal with the US gov lets the scam continue.

> the deal with the US gov lets the scam continue

Outside America. Which, like, seems fine.

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#39

Post by wmf » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 9:24 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #38

ecommerceguy wrote: post #25

4 billion and continue being an inflation sink (dollar destruction) and the deal with the US gov lets the scam continue.

> the deal with the US gov lets the scam continue Outside America. Which, like, seems fine.

It's not really though. US people log in to Binance through VPNs and get scammed.

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#40

Post by bilbo0s » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 9:30 PM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #8

I know this is how the US operates, still it's weird to trade cash for criminal allegations. Especially when Binance has been so vilified. I'm not defending Binance, rather, it feels like the SEC rhetoric went past the point where a fine is appropriate. Unless they are only proposing it so they can't be accused of not giving them the same treatment that everyone else gets.

I'd be much more concerned about what this offer indicates regarding the new goodies that the shadow side of the US government has leveraged out of Binance.

In the long run, I'd wager the US government will be getting information and services worth a good deal more than USD4Billion out of Binance and ancillary organizations.

Still, if you can make as much money as Binance has allegedly been making, and sure, sell out a few of your customers, but now you can keep all that money free and clear legally? That's a pretty good trade assuming you're not some privacy nut or anything.

As a bonus, the shadow side of the US government will probably be pretty keen on protecting you from any of your less savory customers. Just so they can keep the whole thing rolling as long as possible.

This could be a good outcome for Binance.