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B-trees in Factorio

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Re: B-trees in Factorio

#31

Post by all2 »

DonHopkins wrote: post #22
h2odragon wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Factorio is extremely mod friendly If it doesn't exist you can probably wedge it in fairly easily. I suggest that it would be worth your time to give it a poke just to see what a thoroughly excellent example of software engineering they've made there.

Oh I know, but normal Factorio is Programmer Crack, and going meta like that would be like Scarfacing Programmer Fentanyl for me! First I'd use it to implement an email reader, and then ... more Factorio mods! Then Terraform integration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Zawinski#Zawinski's_Law

Would you accidentally a scheme? Would you could you in a train? Would you could you with a plane?

If you go that route, let me know when your emacs implementation is complete. I'll replace my OS with Factorio.

Re: B-trees in Factorio

#32

Post by DonHopkins »

h2odragon wrote: post #25
DonHopkins wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I know, but normal Factorio is Programmer Crack, and going meta like that would be like Scarfacing Programmer Fentanyl for me! First I'd use it to implement an email reader, and then ... more Factorio mods! Then Terraform integration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Zawinski#Zawinski's_Law

steam tells me my play time is 2,779.2 hr i got bored / sane after the first 10k SPM base, ~1,200hr. then i got into making "me" mods.

I'm at 6,251.5 but I leave it running all night long.

I used to play Factorio.

I still do, but I used to, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqHA5CIL0fg

Re: B-trees in Factorio

#33

Post by all2 »

hellorashid wrote: post #14
pram wrote: post #2

You could do this all with splitters, don’t need the boxes and filter inserters. Nice explanation!

thanks! but yea as some people mentioned, i need to sort/filter multiple items, (ie the first node needs wood,coal,stone to go left and the metals to go right), and the splitters can only filter 1 item.

You'd have to chain splitters. It would be ugly, but it would work.

Re: B-trees in Factorio

#34

Post by leetbulb »

dragontamer wrote: post #24
BlueTemplar wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said anything about throughput ? Splitters can still only filter out a single item type, so if your goal is to do comparisons using a single entity (for clarity reasons for instance), they won't cut it. ---- Also, Factorio speedrunning has no metagame, since it's not a PvP game (well, aside from the less played PvP mode) : speedrunners don't have to adapt to changes in tactics of other speedrunners, they only hav…

Meta doesn't mean metagame. "The Meta" is how most other people play. The "standard" set of designs that experienced players have all discovered (and rediscovered) as you play the game. Ya know, 3-wire assembly machines feed into 2-green circuits kinda things. There's patterns of play between players. We all got our own style, but some designs are universally deployed across all experienced players, because those des…

You've just described what "metagame" is; "meta" means metagame.

Re: B-trees in Factorio

#35

Post by jon_richards »

dragontamer wrote: post #7

An inefficient design, but computer-science theory in Factorio means playing suboptimally necessarily. (Factorio wasn't designed to show off B-Trees, all the tools were designed to ya know... play Factorio) ------------ So I have to comments. #1 is about the Comp-Sci side, and #2 is about the optimization side. #3 combines both together for what I'd like to talk about. 1. Self-balancing trees (2-3 trees, Red-black Tr…

> In Factorio, the meta you want to be searching for is "mixed belt" design, it seems.

A more specific case is the "sushi belt" where one belt balances multiple ingredients while looping around on itself.

Sometimes they just accept new items in a fixed ratio, sometimes they can actually rebalance if disturbed. This is my favorite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gt5Zx0bsOQ

While that one uses the in-game circuitry logic, the Factorio forum has a "circuit-free" section https://forums.factorio.com/viewforum.php?f=202

And my favorite fun fact: The "fish" object in Factorio is a useless joke item, but because it isn't used by anything, it's sometimes used as a null value, a flag for when a belt has completed a full loop, or a debugging tool. https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=544302#p544302

Re: B-trees in Factorio

#36

Post by dragontamer »

leetbulb wrote: post #34
dragontamer wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta doesn't mean metagame. "The Meta" is how most other people play. The "standard" set of designs that experienced players have all discovered (and rediscovered) as you play the game. Ya know, 3-wire assembly machines feed into 2-green circuits kinda things. There's patterns of play between players. We all got our own style, but some designs are universally deployed across all experienced players, because those des…

You've just described what "metagame" is; "meta" means metagame.

There's no "metagame" in Factorio because its not a PvP game.

The "metagame" in Magic the Gathering or Starcraft revolves around the game before the game is played. For example, if I see that my opponent in Starcraft is a Terrain player (and I'm a Zerg player), I can study their games and see that they prefer to open 8-rax 3 marines very early harassments.

I then decide to practice 9-pool / 6-ling and make sure I'm good at that before the game even starts, so that I'm well practiced against what they like to do. That's the "metagame", decisions you make before the game even starts.

Or in MTG, its knowing how good Rakdos decks are (or whatever is popular today) and finding counter-cards. You play the game before you even start the game, because you have to prepare your deck.

--------------

So there's no real "metagame" in Factorio. There is a "meta" however. (IE: what most players tend to do).

Re: B-trees in Factorio

#37

Post by rollcat »

jon_richards wrote: post #35
dragontamer wrote: post #7

An inefficient design, but computer-science theory in Factorio means playing suboptimally necessarily. (Factorio wasn't designed to show off B-Trees, all the tools were designed to ya know... play Factorio) ------------ So I have to comments. #1 is about the Comp-Sci side, and #2 is about the optimization side. #3 combines both together for what I'd like to talk about. 1. Self-balancing trees (2-3 trees, Red-black Tr…

> In Factorio, the meta you want to be searching for is "mixed belt" design, it seems. A more specific case is the "sushi belt" where one belt balances multiple ingredients while looping around on itself. Sometimes they just accept new items in a fixed ratio, sometimes they can actually rebalance if disturbed. This is my favorite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gt5Zx0bsOQ While that one uses the in-game circuitry lo…

If you'd like to see sushi belts pushed to absurd levels, check out DoshDoshington:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bRi1ykIeHg

Re: B-trees in Factorio

#38

Post by itishappy »

poink wrote: post #30
hellorashid wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks for the notes! def want to see if I can implement self-balancing next - was thinking the bots would come in handy here? not sure if its possible to have them dynamically build blueprints

> not sure if its possible to have them dynamically build blueprints Not in the base game, but there's a mod for it. Nilaus recently did a short series of videos on YouTube where he used it to make an auto-expanding factory, so you should be able to find the mod name there if you want to mess with it.

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/recursive-blueprints

Re: B-trees in Factorio

#39

Post by demondemidi »

rollcat wrote: post #37
jon_richards wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Factorio, the meta you want to be searching for is "mixed belt" design, it seems. A more specific case is the "sushi belt" where one belt balances multiple ingredients while looping around on itself. Sometimes they just accept new items in a fixed ratio, sometimes they can actually rebalance if disturbed. This is my favorite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gt5Zx0bsOQ While that one uses the in-game circuitry lo…

If you'd like to see sushi belts pushed to absurd levels, check out DoshDoshington: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bRi1ykIeHg

"but somehow I feel that's really far away ... its been two hours and we're just getting furnaces up"

...

"yeah ... its'a 30 lane wide sushi bus ... that's almost 900 underground belts in one blueprint..."

LOL! That guy's delivery is hilarious. And his patience is astonishing.

Re: B-trees in Factorio

#40

Post by boredtofears »

jon_richards wrote: post #35
dragontamer wrote: post #7

An inefficient design, but computer-science theory in Factorio means playing suboptimally necessarily. (Factorio wasn't designed to show off B-Trees, all the tools were designed to ya know... play Factorio) ------------ So I have to comments. #1 is about the Comp-Sci side, and #2 is about the optimization side. #3 combines both together for what I'd like to talk about. 1. Self-balancing trees (2-3 trees, Red-black Tr…

> In Factorio, the meta you want to be searching for is "mixed belt" design, it seems. A more specific case is the "sushi belt" where one belt balances multiple ingredients while looping around on itself. Sometimes they just accept new items in a fixed ratio, sometimes they can actually rebalance if disturbed. This is my favorite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gt5Zx0bsOQ While that one uses the in-game circuitry lo…

This is awesome thanks for sharing. I’m about 20 hours into my first free play run through and just got to end game science and have been progressively trying different belt patterns. The early half of my base looks completely different than my later half.
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