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Google/IAC/Expedia (2019)

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Re: Google/IAC/Expedia (2019)

#31

Post by ivan_gammel »

kubb wrote: post #21

In my impression, a lot of people here hold a surprisingly contradictory set of beliefs. They're huge fans of the current economic system, where the main actors are publicly owned companies, and where we rely on profits growing YOY to generate wealth for everyone (who owns the stocks). And, on the other hand, they're critical of Google which is operating precisely as such a company, and doing exactly what it needs fo…

I personally do not own Google shares directly, it’s mostly ETFs. I do not care much about Google and would rather prefer the portfolio to be diverse enough, meaning that there’s enough competition on the market and enough other companies worth investing. We do not need monopolies to prosper, because they reduce the size of the pie. Any fan of free market would agree with me, because when competition does not exist, free market does not exist.

Re: Google/IAC/Expedia (2019)

#32

Post by martin_a »

> I don't think it's good for Google, I don't think it's good for the consumer, I don't think it's good for the country, and it's most certainly not good for us.

"it's good for the country"? How much do you need to have taken off until you say (and believe) such things?

Re: Google/IAC/Expedia (2019)

#33

Post by kristjank »

epolanski wrote: post #3

Between Android, App Store, Chrome and Search Google has a very big stronghold over how people access and consume the internet. Google has an insane competitive advantage over most of the internet into knowing exactly what are people looking for and being the first to provide it. This isn't any different to what Amazon does on their shop. They know what sells and for how better than any of their sellers, and they wil…

There should probably be some legislative pressure to separate service providers and advertisers. Most of the problems of the modern web can be traced back to how well-integrated the advertising is into big corporations' widely used services.

Re: Google/IAC/Expedia (2019)

#34

Post by born2discover »

passion__desire wrote: post #14
epolanski wrote: post #3

Between Android, App Store, Chrome and Search Google has a very big stronghold over how people access and consume the internet. Google has an insane competitive advantage over most of the internet into knowing exactly what are people looking for and being the first to provide it. This isn't any different to what Amazon does on their shop. They know what sells and for how better than any of their sellers, and they wil…

Is the idea for commercial search engine a bad idea? Where only e-commerce websites are tracked instead of the whole web? I don't understand this idea of intent tracking, guessing and suggestions. I explicitly want good results for my query, I have already made my mind to buy something. For this reason, I despise that Facebook guesses my intent when I visit an e-commerce website through Google search and starts sugge…

Your comment is based on the premises that Meta/Google... are there to help you shop/find the best result once you've made your mind. For that purpose, an optimised search engine is indeed very useful.

But I don't think that's why intent profiling exists. What if, instead of helping you find quickly what you are looking for, they forced you through a less perfect system that, while leading you to your result, suggests you other, somewhat similar articles... Maybe you'll buy more? That incentivises ads and thus increases profits for the AdTech.

Re: Google/IAC/Expedia (2019)

#35

Post by avidiax »

fidotron wrote: post #13
izacus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dismember into what? Except for a lot of ranting and stamping of feet on HN, I don't see a lot of HNers jumping in and providing free alternative services for Google services? There is a lot of DEMAND for free services for sure, but doesn't seem a lot of people are putting their money where their mouth is? Kagi hasn't grown all that much, neither have services like Nebula?

Android, cloud, email, youtube, maps, search and advertising could all be entirely separate businesses in an actual sense.

Android -- a cost center. No viable business model. Maybe Samsung would fork AOSP for their phones.

Cloud -- has to run at a loss in the immediate future to capture marketshare

Email -- nobody pays for email. Get ready for a much smaller mailbox and ads targeted by email contents. Get "sponsored" emails in your feed.

YouTube -- was a separate company before

Maps -- will become a free tourist map, may have to pay to unlock any zone except your home.

Search -- if it can sell ads independently, could be a viable business.

Advertising -- all the other units need advertising to survive. This could be a clearinghouse

In short, not clear that the pieces make sense as independent businesses with some exceptions.

Re: Google/IAC/Expedia (2019)

#36

Post by kubb »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #31
kubb wrote: post #21

In my impression, a lot of people here hold a surprisingly contradictory set of beliefs. They're huge fans of the current economic system, where the main actors are publicly owned companies, and where we rely on profits growing YOY to generate wealth for everyone (who owns the stocks). And, on the other hand, they're critical of Google which is operating precisely as such a company, and doing exactly what it needs fo…

I personally do not own Google shares directly, it’s mostly ETFs. I do not care much about Google and would rather prefer the portfolio to be diverse enough, meaning that there’s enough competition on the market and enough other companies worth investing. We do not need monopolies to prosper, because they reduce the size of the pie. Any fan of free market would agree with me, because when competition does not exist,…

Just saying, I’m not talking about idealized free markets, but specifically what we have right now.

Your ETFs rely on the companies in the basket doing what Google does.

Re: Google/IAC/Expedia (2019)

#37

Post by mongol »

It is kind of crazy. Websites allow themselves to be indexed, to become content to display ads above. What if Google just showed ads? Then it would be like the traditional yellow pages. Of course, it is not in Google's interest, but I think it is in the interest of websites everywhere. There should be some licensing schemes which state under what terms your website can be indexed. Think creative commons, but with categories such as "can be indexed for ad-driven search pages", "can be indexed for for-pay search pages" and so on. I think something like this is needed to wrestle control from Google.

Re: Google/IAC/Expedia (2019)

#38

Post by miki123211 »

As a consumer, I don't care about where or who I get my results from.

If I search for "NYC to LAX Monday", I don't care if I have to click through to a shady website with lots of SEO experts who will probably miss the "Monday" part of my query anyway, I'd rather get a nice list of flights right in my search results. I don't care if those are provided by Google, a third-party website that Google scrapes, somebody Google signs a deal with or somebody who implements a Google-provided API for this and is good at SEO, as a consumer, I care about flying, not clicking links. Forcing Google to hide the flights UI and link me to Expedia is a worse experience for me. Same applies to News, Shopping, facts, answers etc.

If the Google results ever get really bad or way too expensive, most people will switch search engines (or switch search engines for a single use-case), like searching for products on Amazon instead of Google or searching for flights directly on Expedia. So far, Google results are getting worse but results from other (free) search engines aren't that much better, so other people stay with Google and there is that.

Re: Google/IAC/Expedia (2019)

#39

Post by bvoq »

The main problem is bad people, people who put shareholder value above all else. However, another big problem is good people leaving when bad things happen. At some point only bad people remain at a company and this will be the fait of Google at some point.

Re: Google/IAC/Expedia (2019)

#40

Post by throwaway4good »

krapp wrote: post #18
kubb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you hate saying it? Thought crime guilt?

Thoughtcrime on HN would be assuming Google actually does good and provides value. Wanting FAANG companies to be broken up, by violence if necessary, is such a common opinion here it's banal.

Google provides value but its monopoly provides less value than what would have been created by a multiple of companies freely competing in an open market.
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