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Gigantic heat caverns in Mustikkamaa have now been filled with water (2021)

helen.fi

31–40 of 106 posts

Re: Gigantic heat caverns in Mustikkamaa have now been filled with water (2021)

#31

I wonder why they used tap water instead of seawater

Why they should use seawater? Fresh water is not in shortage in this region - yearly precipitation significantly exceeds evaporation.

To a first approximation, Finland is on average a swamp. Thousands and thousands of lakes everywhere.

Re: Gigantic heat caverns in Mustikkamaa have now been filled with water (2021)

#32
post #15

One application of this technology is to economically harnessing fusion power. Sadly there are considerable engineering and political difficulties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_PACER

Not simply fusion power: exploding small fusion or fission bombs. I think some difficulties are to be expected with such a plan.

Re: Gigantic heat caverns in Mustikkamaa have now been filled with water (2021)

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a massive desalination and pipeline operation to create lakes throughout the country? Or is it the the sun and rain that created the lakes?

https://www.geographyrealm.com/finland-many-lakes/ Thanks to the last ice age and retreating glaciers...

Ice age and retreating glaciers created holes. And those holes filled up by the melt water of the glaciers.

The fact that they are still full of water is due to them being replenished by precipitation more than they lose water. If they would lose more water then what flows into them we would be speaking about the "land of many bone dry holes" in the famous Finnish desert.

Re: Gigantic heat caverns in Mustikkamaa have now been filled with water (2021)

#34
post #28

"Mustikkamaa" translates to "blueberry land" or "blueberry earth" (Mustikka|maa) in case anyone's interested.

Or even bilberry land?

Yeah bilberry land is the correct translation. The grocery store blueberry translates to pensasmustikka and the flavor is a lot less intense.

Re: Gigantic heat caverns in Mustikkamaa have now been filled with water (2021)

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I would normally have assumed, but 100C seemed a little hot for water just sitting in a big cistern

I'm no physicist but I assume that you'd need to put a lot more energy into the system before the water starts boiling, so you wouldn't have to worry about it? If the energy would just be lost otherwise, you might as well go all the way to 100℃? That's at 1 atm, perhaps the water is a bit pressurized as well? A bit further down there's this confusing quote though: > District heat is stored in two rock caverns in Must…

+100°C (relative to some other temperature not clearly explained, probably the rock) vs 90°C absolute temperature.

Re: Gigantic heat caverns in Mustikkamaa have now been filled with water (2021)

#37
post #2

This energy storage system near Helsinki, Finland operated by Helen ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Oy ) might be interesting for HN readers. Some facts from previous article ( https://www.helen.fi/en/news/2020/mustikkamaa ), not sure which one would've been better in url field: District heat is stored in two rock caverns in Mustikkamaa. The temperature of the water in the caverns varies between 50 and 90 °C. T…

This is a cool project, and I'm sure it has many benefits beyond just carbon savings. But 21,000 tonnes per year is surprisingly little in the scheme of things. Equivalent of about 150 or so long-haul 777 flights?

Re: Gigantic heat caverns in Mustikkamaa have now been filled with water (2021)

#38

"Mustikkamaa" translates to "blueberry land" or "blueberry earth" (Mustikka|maa) in case anyone's interested.

Mustikamaa in Estonian :)

I've heard people joke that if a Finnish person just spends enough time in Estonia they start to understand it :)

Re: Gigantic heat caverns in Mustikkamaa have now been filled with water (2021)

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I would normally have assumed, but 100C seemed a little hot for water just sitting in a big cistern

I'm no physicist but I assume that you'd need to put a lot more energy into the system before the water starts boiling, so you wouldn't have to worry about it? If the energy would just be lost otherwise, you might as well go all the way to 100℃? That's at 1 atm, perhaps the water is a bit pressurized as well? A bit further down there's this confusing quote though: > District heat is stored in two rock caverns in Must…

> "perhaps the water is a bit pressurized as well?"

I suppose in such a large storage vessel, most of the water is naturally pressurised by its own weight. So most of it won't boil, even at 100°C, except right at the surface?

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