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A carbohydrate revolution is speeding up pro cycling

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Re: A carbohydrate revolution is speeding up pro cycling

#31

Post by Someone »

alephxyz wrote: post #27
JauntyHatAngle wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doping is probably still common, but the more endurance or speed based the more drugs help. Soccer values attributes drugs exaggerate - but it has a skill component that is more important vs cycling. Soccer also has breaks and substitutes and ways to slow the game down to close the gap. I'm not ignorant to the tactics and technique required in cycling, but its a smaller part of the sport vs tactics and skill in footb…

PEDs aren't just for endurance. Prescription painkillers, stimulants and corticosteroids are easy to get prescriptions for or even TUEs. The typical player in the NHL gets tested 2-3 times a year, and almost never in the off season. Some sports barely test more than once a year. In cycling it's closer to once a month for an average rider but it can get a lot higher if you're successful as most orgs will test their to…

> In cycling it's closer to once a month for an average rider but it can get a lot higher

Extreme example (https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/jumbo-visma-and-uae-team-em...):

“Jonas Vingegaard has had no fewer than four blood tests in the last 48 hours. We are happy to participate in this.”

Re: A carbohydrate revolution is speeding up pro cycling

#32

Post by Someone »

ano-ther wrote: post #17

How do they adapt between racing and less strenuous times? Must be hard to maintain that kind of eating discipline.

An army marches on its stomach, and so do cycling teams. Good teams make sure they have a good cook.

https://amacx.com/blogs/news/what-does-a-team-jumbo-visma-ri...:

“For more than three weeks, two chefs from the team prepare 5 personalized meals daily for each rider. They prepare these in their own fully equipped cooking truck using only fresh groceries from Jumbo. This ensures optimal hygiene at all times, and the exact composition of each dish remains known. Because 'taste fatigue' is a serious danger during an exhausting race like the Tour de France, the chefs ensure that the riders are never served the same meal twice. This way, the riders look forward to the next meal every time, and it is ensured that they can keep eating.”

Re: A carbohydrate revolution is speeding up pro cycling

#33

Post by varenc »

heymijo wrote: post #6

> "Riders are able to eat so many carbohydrates on the bike now, almost twice as much as before." > “But what has changed is the way riders get their glycogen fix. New formulations from nutrition brands like Maurten, Precision Fuel and Hydration, and Science in Sport means the age-old carb “ceiling” of 60-90 grams per hour has been blown into another orbit.” “Consumption thresholds have been shifted thanks to “hydrog…

> I thought I might see something like highly branched cyclic dextrin

I just learned about HBCD but its advantage seems to be that its high molecular weight slows down digestion and absorption in the gut. This allows for a more sustained release of glucose into the bloodstream, providing a steady source of energy during prolonged activity. But in biking you can eat on the go, so you don't really need a slow release source.

The main biking innovation seems to be training and using a 1:1 glucose to fructose ratio to maximize both metabolic pathways. But since HBCD is just a slow-release glucose source it's still competing for the same limited metabolic pathway as glucose consumed directly.

Re: A carbohydrate revolution is speeding up pro cycling

#34

Post by vlovich123 »

Manfred wrote: post #9
zemvpferreira wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lance Armstrong was USADA tested 60 times, and likely hundreds more by other organizations, without a single positive. It's all drugs.

The fact that someone cheated the system in the past is in no way proof that the same thing is happening now.

First it wasn’t just him. The entire sport has been plagued by accusations that the top performers are doping.

Secondly, he won 7 consecutive races. When he dropped out, the race times didn’t change that much and now the Tour de France winning times are faster than Armstrong.

You can claim that it’s better bikes, training, diet etc. The simplest explanation given all the facts though seems like doping.

Re: A carbohydrate revolution is speeding up pro cycling

#35

Post by lormayna »

alephxyz wrote: post #28
lormayna wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an amateur cycling and I am pretty sure that bike technology is a key factor in improvement in cycling performances. Better aerodynamic, disk brakes and more sliding wheels are a thing. There is also another factor that is having an huge impact on cycling performances: power meters. Power meters help a lot on energy and fatigue management and also on training in a scientific way. In the 90s (the EPO era that you…

They actually started using powermeters in the 90s, Lemond was one of the first to train using one. Nothing compared to what we have today though.

I remember a former pro that I know bought tlhis first PM around 2005: it was crazy expensive (more than 1500€ at that time) an not comparable with the PM that we have now (Assioma Duo costs 6/700€).But what it was a really game changer is data analysis tool: right now using free tools like GoldenCheetah or intervals.icu you can have an incredible set of metrics and analytics. Thanks to that, there was an huge improvement on training theory in the last year: things like VO2Max or Z2 where unknown in the '00. And today pros are using also other sensors to have a more olystic overview of the body condition and training effects: glucose meter (banned on races), lactate sensor, basal temperature sensor, etc.

Re: A carbohydrate revolution is speeding up pro cycling

#36

Post by lormayna »

Lio wrote: post #29
ano-ther wrote: post #17

How do they adapt between racing and less strenuous times? Must be hard to maintain that kind of eating discipline.

Riders like Pidcock, Van Aert and Van der Pole will be racing all year round swapping between Road, MTB and Cyclocross. In "Faster: The Obsession, Science and Luck Behind the World's Fastest Cyclists" Michael Hutchinson talks about how much effort Team Sky/Inneos into planing diets. They copied the way doctors help cancer and terminally ill patients that have difficulty absorbing nutrients. The team use medical dieti…

Some cyclists are suffering from burnout and end their career early. Think about Tom Dumolin

Re: A carbohydrate revolution is speeding up pro cycling

#37

Post by leetbulb »

rokob wrote: post #11
heymijo wrote: post #6

> "Riders are able to eat so many carbohydrates on the bike now, almost twice as much as before." > “But what has changed is the way riders get their glycogen fix. New formulations from nutrition brands like Maurten, Precision Fuel and Hydration, and Science in Sport means the age-old carb “ceiling” of 60-90 grams per hour has been blown into another orbit.” “Consumption thresholds have been shifted thanks to “hydrog…

I believe this is just referring to the glucose:fructose ratio now being closer to 1:1 than what it used to be. In the old days people only looked at glucose and the 60g/hr limit is more or less for that metabolic pathway. Fructose takes a different path so you can easily go to 120g if you are using a 1:1 mix. Also the old 60g/hr limit isn’t universal so that is how you get some people that can handle 150g+

Just adding my own info here:

When I rode, years ago, my intake was ~110g/hr during 100mi+ rides. This was with the GU brand gels which is a mixture primarily compose of maltodextrin and fructose.

Re: A carbohydrate revolution is speeding up pro cycling

#38

Post by zh3 »

Lio wrote: post #26
robotburrito wrote: post #14

Was Durianrider correct all these years? Many cyclists now just skip the expensive gels and literally put some sugar in their water bottle.

> “At the time I was being beaten by a guy who was claiming to build bikes out of washing machines, eating marmalade sandwiches and getting up and do the hour record. It was quite irritating to say the least,” - Chris Boardman. I went to a film premier about the great Graeme Obree and afterwards he gave a talk. He mentioned that people used to laugh at him for eating marmalade sandwiches heavily in training. He count…

For anyone who hasn't seen it, look up "The flying Scotsman"

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472268/

Re: A carbohydrate revolution is speeding up pro cycling

#39

Post by eszed »

JauntyHatAngle wrote: post #20
ImprovedSilence wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not going to disagree with the sentiment that drugs are speeding up the peleton. but >>” most drug filled sport”. comes off as probably naive. o think footbal, hockey, soccer, or baseball are are more clean is laughable, they just dont test for anything EVER, except maybe steroids every so often. id bet my bottom dollar all those pro sports with $$$$ flying around HAMMER any drug cocktail that might get them the…

Doping is probably still common, but the more endurance or speed based the more drugs help. Soccer values attributes drugs exaggerate - but it has a skill component that is more important vs cycling. Soccer also has breaks and substitutes and ways to slow the game down to close the gap. I'm not ignorant to the tactics and technique required in cycling, but its a smaller part of the sport vs tactics and skill in footb…

As I understand it, the main benefit of PEDs is improved recovery times. Regardless of the extent to which it affects the first race / game / training session, it permits your body to get back to peak condition more rapidly. The incremental gains from spending more time in the optimal performance window quickly compound.

Re: A carbohydrate revolution is speeding up pro cycling

#40

Post by mikestew »

lormayna wrote: post #35
alephxyz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They actually started using powermeters in the 90s, Lemond was one of the first to train using one. Nothing compared to what we have today though.

I remember a former pro that I know bought tlhis first PM around 2005: it was crazy expensive (more than 1500€ at that time) an not comparable with the PM that we have now (Assioma Duo costs 6/700€).But what it was a really game changer is data analysis tool: right now using free tools like GoldenCheetah or intervals.icu you can have an incredible set of metrics and analytics. Thanks to that, there was an huge improv…

Thanks to that, there was an huge improvement on training theory in the last year: things like VO2Max or Z2 where unknown in the '00

I had my VO2Max tested forty years ago, and "Zone 2" training is just a rehash of Arthur Lydiard's coaching from the 60s. This stuff has been known for decades, but just repackaged with new marketing and sold again. And I'll guess that nearly every pro in the peloton had a power meter on their bike during the "Lance years". Had one on my race bike at that time.

Beside, you can collect all the data you want, you still have to do the work. I've known plenty of amateur cyclists that thought staring at power meter graph would reveal the mystery of why they suck, when the problem is too much staring at the computer, not enough riding.

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