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Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

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Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#31

Post by ZeroGravitas »

vasdae wrote: post #8
sseagull wrote: post #5

The headline basically says it all. My 15 year old car is starting to get some issues so I was browsing some EVs. They are literally twice as expensive as a comparable ICE car, even after tax incentives. With interest rates where they are, 22k vs 44k is a huge difference. They are just unaffordable for a lot of people. (Also, was looking for a sedan. They don’t seem to make a lot of EV sedans, and I find the hatchbac…

[flagged]

Are borderline insane conspiracy theory comments like this considered flaggable on HN?

I feel the HN moderation has managed to quell the angry and hateful type of comment but has an apparent blind spot when it comes to this type of weirdness where people calmly state worldviews that are detached from reality and clearly tips of very disturbing icebergs.

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#32

Post by jncfhnb »

timschmidt wrote: post #16
slaw wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long is that first tick to last? 50 years?

Depends entirely on capital invested. Though 9 women can't make a baby in 1 month.

I really hate this quote. 9 women can’t make a baby in 1 month. But 9 women can produce babies 9x faster than 1 woman. Which is the effect you would hope to achieve by scaling production facilities.

Increasing the rate of unit production per facility is something you might also want to achieve, but is not analogous to adding more women.

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#33

Post by Welmoto »

georgeplusplus wrote: post #14
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE cars won't be outlawed if there isn't an acceptable alternative. It would be political suicide.

Europe and California are already moving full steam ahead without a plan. Anything for that sweet chinese money. EVs benefit china. Period. Gavin Newsom met with Xi recently. Probably to collect his paycheck for enacting the law to phase out ICEs by 2030. Why cant democrat supporters connect the dots.

Germany is pushing for ev too and Germany main industry is cars.

We have bmw, VW, Mercedes etc here.

A lot of people I personally know work for bmw.

Your conspiracy doesn't make sense. No German politican would ever ty to hurt the German automotive sector.

And we don't have that many it people we have a ton of German engineers

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#34

Post by evilduck »

sseagull wrote: post #26
yourusername wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on how much you drive. at 30k km a year the average car is done after 15 years and 450k km.

Wow, it is not driven nearly that much. It has But it did spend its first 6 or 7 years in Western NY, with snowy, salty roads a good chunk of the year. There definitely is some rusty spots and corrosion. I think people who do stuff like fix their own cars (and lots of other things) very much underestimate the time it takes to acquire the knowledge, and how much intuition they've unknowingly built up while they did it…

You've also got to have a place to do it and a modest collection of tools.

If you live in dense urban housing you probably aren't up for swapping a transmission for your very first time on the curb of a busy street or doing much multi-day work in your narrow numbered parking spot unless you can borrow a friend's garage to have a place to spread out a little bit. You aren't rolling a toolbox down from your 4th floor apartment, and there's usually a relative void of auto parts and hardware stores inside the city. There just aren't many shade tree mechanics in places where shade trees are rare.

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#35

Post by TerrifiedMouse »

Welmoto wrote: post #33
georgeplusplus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe and California are already moving full steam ahead without a plan. Anything for that sweet chinese money. EVs benefit china. Period. Gavin Newsom met with Xi recently. Probably to collect his paycheck for enacting the law to phase out ICEs by 2030. Why cant democrat supporters connect the dots.

Germany is pushing for ev too and Germany main industry is cars. We have bmw, VW, Mercedes etc here. A lot of people I personally know work for bmw. Your conspiracy doesn't make sense. No German politican would ever ty to hurt the German automotive sector. And we don't have that many it people we have a ton of German engineers

> Your conspiracy doesn't make sense. No German politican would ever ty to hurt the German automotive sector.

The same German politicians that shutdown nuclear reactors making Germany more dependent on fossil fuels like coal?

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#36

Post by userinanother »

Evs are great fun toys that I would absolutely recommend to anyone that can afford them and lives in a 2 car household. They are not currently an acceptable replacement for an ICE car in the United States due to infrastructure problems. I would bet we need 10-15 years to get that to an acceptable state

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#37

Post by userinanother »

tpmoney wrote: post #4
slaw wrote: post #3

What is blocking import of EVs from China. I saw 3000-4000 RMB ~ $400 electric scooters in China that I would use in US instead of a car for local trips.

I suspect a combination of safety standards and an unwillingness for the Chinese companies to deal with the process of certifying or complying, a local hesitation given the well known problems with Chinese electric bike and scooter battery charging and fires, and current ongoing global political concerns that have the US and US companies reevaluating how strongly tied to China they want to be.

Safety standards, lawsuits and a generally unfavorable trade environment

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#38

Post by timschmidt »

jncfhnb wrote: post #32
timschmidt wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends entirely on capital invested. Though 9 women can't make a baby in 1 month.

I really hate this quote. 9 women can’t make a baby in 1 month. But 9 women can produce babies 9x faster than 1 woman. Which is the effect you would hope to achieve by scaling production facilities. Increasing the rate of unit production per facility is something you might also want to achieve, but is not analogous to adding more women.

Hating the quote does not make it less true. 9 women may be able to make babies 9x faster than 1 woman, but they still cannot manage to make one in a single month. The quote is meant to point out that scaling is often limited by factors in addition to production capacity. Sometimes throwing money at the problem can solve it. Sometimes not. Sometimes there is only one person in the world, who is the rate limiting factor. Or a raw material or process. Manufacturing physical goods is a series of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_problem nested like Matryoshka dolls.

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#39

Post by gottorf »

daedalus_j wrote: post #24
slaw wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just a software developer and I don't know a single person who thinks car is a status symbol of any kind. Private jets and yachts are.

Perhaps you're high enough up the ladder that those are simply the people you know and interact with? Move higher up and "personal city on the moon" becomes the status symbol. Move lower down and it's still cars. What type of car, and what modifications it has, etc, become quite important talking points. A recent SMBC seems to me to explain it well: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/esteem-2

> A recent SMBC seems to me to explain it well: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/esteem-2

The bonus panel is hilarious!

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#40

Post by gottorf »

tguedes wrote: post #30
slaw wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just a software developer and I don't know a single person who thinks car is a status symbol of any kind. Private jets and yachts are.

It's important to recognize the bubble you're in. Go to the American south and the Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge is a major identity for a lot of people. You'll see ridiculous bumper stickers like "I'd rather push a Ford than drive a Chevy." or "Ford. Like Chevy but for men." And the more you customize your truck, the "higher" your status. To the point where you get ridiculous monstrosities like this https://encrypted-tbn0.…

> Go to the American south and the Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge is a major identity for a lot of people. You'll see ridiculous bumper stickers like "I'd rather push a Ford than drive a Chevy." or "Ford. Like Chevy but for men."

For what it's worth, I live in the Deep South and while I do see bumper stickers of that sort every now and then, the sentiment behind it is generally just banter. Most people with one probably have three or four identities more important than "I'm a Dodge guy", whether it be "I'm a Christian", "I'm a father", or what have you.

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