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Confessions of a Middle-Class Founder

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31–40 of 70 posts

Re: Confessions of a Middle-Class Founder

#31

$6 million in personal wealth is middle class? Woof!

As painful as it is for some people to hear this - yes, $6 million in personal wealth is middle class.

If you have to work a 9-5 for somebody else to survive then you're working class, not middle class.

Re: Confessions of a Middle-Class Founder

#32
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially in the US, those are nearly meaningless terms. People from the 1% to 80% call themselves "middle class". All self-described "middle class" status tells us is they're not homeless, and also capable of easily recalling how many homes they own.

We're in a funny state because calling oneself 'rich' or 'upper class' sounds like bragging even if it is more accurate. If some 6-figure-earner went around calling themselves 'rich' most people would roll their eyes. 'Upper-class' is not much better because 'class' is still a loaded term. Does 'upper-class' mean 'has more money' or 'knows what fork to use' So everyone uses 'middle class' unless they own a jet or an…

> Does 'upper-class' mean 'has more money' or 'knows what fork to use'

It means 'derives their income from capital', just as the working class 'derives their income from labour'.

The middle class walk both lines, seeing some of their income come from capital, and some from labour.

Realistically, most people talking about class probably are middle class.

Re: Confessions of a Middle-Class Founder

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're buying into the false dichotomy. A lifestyle business isn't organic growth. It's sitting on a beach pulling in $20k/mo for your Gmail plugin, or getting to buy lots of cool cameras which you love, paid for by your camera-based Youtube channel. There's a whole world of businesses that exists between unicorns and lifestyles.

Also it's a false dichotomy mainly pushed on you by venture funds to encourage you to play in their world. Bootstrapped tech startups have such low costs and labor as to make other traditional small-business owners jaws hang on the floor in envy. Unicorn money is a distraction that's keeping everyone's eye off the ball and deluding people into ignoring the power in their fingertips.

The low cost base also means it’s really hard to compete against. A lot of VC money is aimed at monopolizing a niche and extracting long term above average returns out of it. Having a lifestyle company operating in their niche destroys that as a possibility and means they’ll never be able to get the returns they want.

Re: Confessions of a Middle-Class Founder

#34

> I could have tried roughing it without venture funding, what the industry calls “bootstrapping.” The venture world has a condescending label for bootstrapped companies without scale potential: a “lifestyle” business, which roughly translates to: Good for you, now back to the sandbox until you’re ready to play with the big boys. Given my professed aim, this could have made sense. But there was so much funding for th…

>instead of run a business

Running a business is a gamble, always

Re: Confessions of a Middle-Class Founder

#35

$6 million in personal wealth is middle class? Woof!

As painful as it is for some people to hear this - yes, $6 million in personal wealth is middle class. If you have to work a 9-5 for somebody else to survive then you're working class, not middle class.

That is not the traditional definition of middle class in the United States.

The traditional American dream was a middle class life: stable career, single income family, house in the suburbs and a nice pension check when you retire.

Fair to point out that that is a bygone era and maybe you do need $6 mill now, but maybe we need a different name than “middle class” to describe it.

Re: Confessions of a Middle-Class Founder

#36
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially in the US, those are nearly meaningless terms. People from the 1% to 80% call themselves "middle class". All self-described "middle class" status tells us is they're not homeless, and also capable of easily recalling how many homes they own.

We're in a funny state because calling oneself 'rich' or 'upper class' sounds like bragging even if it is more accurate. If some 6-figure-earner went around calling themselves 'rich' most people would roll their eyes. 'Upper-class' is not much better because 'class' is still a loaded term. Does 'upper-class' mean 'has more money' or 'knows what fork to use' So everyone uses 'middle class' unless they own a jet or an…

IMO, the Marxist definition is a good one. Do you work for your money, or do you get most of your income through the leverage of your capital?

Thus you end up with four categories: Those that cannot meet their needs, the poor, those that meet their needs exclusively through wages with no significant capital, the lower-middle class, those that need to work to make ends meet but can offset some of that through the leverage of some amount of capital, a spectrum of the middle to upper-middle class, until you reach the upper class/rich/bourgeois, where their needs can be met exclusively through the leveraging of capital.

Re: Confessions of a Middle-Class Founder

#37
post #22

Honestly it sounds like this person was a success. Their company is growing and sounds profitable, their customers are happy, and they have a working product. They avoided the "megafunds" and the strings attached to them, and still managed to pay themselves a salary. It's not a smashing unicorn success but it's definitely a success.

Seriously - they built the company on their terms, have a happy customer base, and don't have a host of Vultures screeching "grow grow grow" in their ear all day. Not every company needs to grow to a 10,000x investment ROI for investors. Let people build companies that serve their local niches, and if it grows organically past that, great. If it doesn't, but the business is healthy, great! There's a local restaurant…

We don't need to celebrate the large businesses, the reward for that is money.

Re: Confessions of a Middle-Class Founder

#38

> I could have tried roughing it without venture funding, what the industry calls “bootstrapping.” The venture world has a condescending label for bootstrapped companies without scale potential: a “lifestyle” business, which roughly translates to: Good for you, now back to the sandbox until you’re ready to play with the big boys. Given my professed aim, this could have made sense. But there was so much funding for th…

I would argue that all businesses are lifestyle businesses. Dreaming of a lifestyle that involves 10 houses and a yacht? Become a VC, or join a company backed by one and hope it becomes a unicorn. Astronomical wealth and power are a LIFESTYLE, the same way that dreaming of a modest home, work that you love, and time to spend on meaningful relationships is a lifestyle.

Just try to avoid judging the lifestyles of others.

Re: Confessions of a Middle-Class Founder

#39
post #29

$6 million in personal wealth is middle class? Woof!

$6 million x 4% safe withdrawal rate = $240,000 a year. It's enough for comfort, but it's still considered a middle-class income in the more expensive parts of the country. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/takes-middle-class-americas-l...

You guys. Median income in the USA is about 76k per year (according to https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percen...). 230k will quite literally put you in the top 10% of income earners in the USA, and probably much higher elsewhere.

Re: Confessions of a Middle-Class Founder

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As painful as it is for some people to hear this - yes, $6 million in personal wealth is middle class. If you have to work a 9-5 for somebody else to survive then you're working class, not middle class.

That is not the traditional definition of middle class in the United States. The traditional American dream was a middle class life: stable career, single income family, house in the suburbs and a nice pension check when you retire. Fair to point out that that is a bygone era and maybe you do need $6 mill now, but maybe we need a different name than “middle class” to describe it.

That is the original meaning of the term middle class - a class that does not need to sell its labor to a boss to survive but who is also not part of the idle rich crowd.
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