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How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

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Re: How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

#31

Post by ZoomerCretin »

ars wrote: post #20
happytiger wrote: post #10

Maybe we can have fewer cars and fewer roads and just focus more on building sustainable cities that are more focused on people instead of vehicles?

My vehicle enables my person to do so much more than I could do without it. To focus on People, for me, would imply making vehicle transport easier and quicker. There's virtually nothing I'm interested in that's in walking distance (there are plenty of things in walkable distance - I'm just interested in none of them).

There's nothing interesting in walking distance _because_ everyone has a car.

Re: How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

#32

Post by ZoomerCretin »

aresant wrote: post #4

With new taxes? LOL. This is the government we're talking about here folks. 99% of the time I actually click on the article before commenting but I literally can't resist on this title.

This comment ignores that the general attitude towards taxation has changed severely in the past few decades. One party has extreme ideological opposition to enacting new taxes, and many states are effectively one-party states. The gas tax has not been high enough to pay for *half* of the upkeep for roads in any state in decades.

All states rely on the once-in-x-decades ""infrastructure"" bills to bail out their huge road maintenance deficit, and as a result, there is no incentive to invest in alternatives. There is unlimited money to subsidize all private car transportation and everything it requires: knocking down neighborhoods to expand highways, requiring 2/3-3/4 of lots be for parking and driveways, and funding it all with federal and state tax dollars (>90% of which is from money that doesn't come from gas taxes, auto registration fees, etc).

So no. The answer won't be new taxes, it'll be more of the same of every taxpayer paying tax money to subsidize 90% of car infrastructure with current taxation. The gas tax hasn't been relevant in decades outside of California.

Re: How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

#33

Post by ars »

cratermoon wrote: post #30
ars wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My vehicle enables my person to do so much more than I could do without it. To focus on People, for me, would imply making vehicle transport easier and quicker. There's virtually nothing I'm interested in that's in walking distance (there are plenty of things in walkable distance - I'm just interested in none of them).

> There's virtually nothing I'm interested in that's in walking distance That's the problem to solve, then.

When I want to go shopping I want the store to be the size of a city block.

When I want nature I want a huge park, where I can drive a distance inside the park until there are no humans in sight.

When I want entertainment the things I'm interested in wouldn't fit in walkable distance.

When I want a museam it's going to be large.

So tell me, what could you offer me that's small enough to be within walking distance, and still interesting? A library is the only thing I can think of.

I also want my house to be large enough to store all the tools I could want, with a space for a workshop, and space outside so I can build things or work on a car if I want.

Re: How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

#34

Post by nradov »

cratermoon wrote: post #30
ars wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My vehicle enables my person to do so much more than I could do without it. To focus on People, for me, would imply making vehicle transport easier and quicker. There's virtually nothing I'm interested in that's in walking distance (there are plenty of things in walkable distance - I'm just interested in none of them).

> There's virtually nothing I'm interested in that's in walking distance That's the problem to solve, then.

Sure let's move the beach to within walking distance of my house.

Re: How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

#35

Post by nradov »

cratermoon wrote: post #29

The Road User Fee Task Force was almost right. They didn't take into account curb weight. The right way forward is a weight-mile tax, like those levied on fleets and cargo transport. Good news! That will create incentives for lighter passenger vehicles, ending the reign of deadly oversize SUVs. https://jalopnik.com/watch-video-on-us-deadly-obsession-with...

SUVs cause almost no wear on roads. Almost all road damage comes from heavy commercial vehicles.

Re: How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

#36

Post by tuatoru »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #17
happytiger wrote: post #10

Maybe we can have fewer cars and fewer roads and just focus more on building sustainable cities that are more focused on people instead of vehicles?

You're downvoted for apparent irrelevance even though you're absolutely right. It's a shame that those of us who dislike car-centric design have no affordable options in the US. Without a hint of irony, Musk likes to talk about engineers optimizing solutions to a problem that shouldn't exist. An EV is still a car, and still contributes to the impoverishment of our lives. Cars shed brake and tire dust. They necessitat…

I don't really care about centrism, but from a public health point of view, cars contribute greatly (hah!) to obesity and all its ills. As well as all the ills you list.

Re: How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

#37

Post by tuatoru »

nradov wrote: post #34
cratermoon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's virtually nothing I'm interested in that's in walking distance That's the problem to solve, then.

Sure let's move the beach to within walking distance of my house.

No problem, if you live at less than 70 metres above MSL currently.

Re: How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

#38

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

The 'chicago model': They sell the rights to road passage for a single one-time fee and the winning company then charges whatever tolls they want for the next 99 years. Maybe they do road maintenance, maybe they don't, it will be left out of the contract as an oopsie.

Re: How will states pay for roads when gas taxes evaporate?

#39

Post by timbit42 »

nradov wrote: post #35
cratermoon wrote: post #29

The Road User Fee Task Force was almost right. They didn't take into account curb weight. The right way forward is a weight-mile tax, like those levied on fleets and cargo transport. Good news! That will create incentives for lighter passenger vehicles, ending the reign of deadly oversize SUVs. https://jalopnik.com/watch-video-on-us-deadly-obsession-with...

SUVs cause almost no wear on roads. Almost all road damage comes from heavy commercial vehicles.

The key word here being 'almost'. So you admit there is some.
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