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Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

kcl.ac.uk

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Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#31

Post by reaperman »

cabaalis wrote: post #25
reaperman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refuse to copy/paste ChatGPT but it breaks it down well enough to help you target specific slices of the statement to google yourself and do your own analysis of the accuracy of the claims. This shouldn’t come across as “lmgtfy” and also nothing ChatGPT says can be taken as fact, but I do think it provided some helpful restructuring of the original. I think its probably (mildly) overly pessimistic about some less-s…

Wow. When someone is so well versed in a topic that everyone else has to use the world's most popular and advanced artificial intelligence to understand what they have just said. Bravo.

I mean, I understood most of it from just hobbyist-level interest in anabolic steroids. Many of those (testosterone, nandrolone, masteron, trenbolone, trestolone) also interact with prolactin and there’s occasional discussion about pregnenolone as well.

So I was able to validate at a surface level that ChatGPT at least didn't completely mangle the meaning, intention, and facts.

But the truth is that the GP shouldnt be viewed as being “so well versed in the topic”. Most of these hormones (even pregnenolone) havent been studied well enough to understand the full effects of manipulating them in otherwise “healthy-ish” people. We know their most powerful effects in niche, extreme situations - so if someone has a true medical issue/emergency related to them we know to raise/lower them to get certain desired effects.

But we really don’t know the vast majority of the effects that subtle changes in these hormones might have. Supplementing pregnenolone seems to cause temporary depression in many of the folks I’ve talked with in the bodybuilding community - myself included (until supplementation is ceased). For me that effect greatly outweighs its potential contribution to Alzheimer’s later in life.

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#32

Post by SquibblesRedux »

bagels wrote: post #29
chiefalchemist wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The usual. The way we evolved: Avoid processed foods and move (i.e., exercise). Obviously, only take antibiotics when absolutely necessary.

What does processed even mean? Unless I run out in the field and bite a cow, that meat is going to be processed. Likewise with potatoes, I'm going to be eating unpalatable starchy uncooked potatoes.

> Unless I run out in the field and bite a cow

Oh, how I now want to invent a new fad diet...

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#33

Post by Retric »

bagels wrote: post #29
chiefalchemist wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The usual. The way we evolved: Avoid processed foods and move (i.e., exercise). Obviously, only take antibiotics when absolutely necessary.

What does processed even mean? Unless I run out in the field and bite a cow, that meat is going to be processed. Likewise with potatoes, I'm going to be eating unpalatable starchy uncooked potatoes.

Every kind of food processing has trade offs including cooking which destroys vitamin C among other things.

White rice was historically missing thiamine (B1) found in brown/hole which was killing off a surprisingly large number of people in Asia as it became popular. Now days foods are often fortified with various things to cover the most common and severe issues, but that’s probably not enough on its own.

In terms of highly processed foods you run into various additives. There’s a long list of minimally studied additives/dyes/preservatives/etc being used only for them to later be recalled and replaced with some other poorly studied substances. Ignorance may be a legal defense for Nabisco adding X to their products, but it’s not going to protect your health.

So, the advice is basically to have the absolute minimum amount of processing steps which is a surprisingly useful heuristic alongside having a varied diet including lots of different plants.

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#34

Post by datameta »

nikkwong wrote: post #14
datameta wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fatty fish, most nuts (that don't have high omega-6, which is inflammatory), fruits high in antioxidants like berries and dark fruit in general, colorful vegetable, cooking with olive/avocado/sunflower oil, *kefir* which is the champion of all good microbiota inducers As for avoiding : red meat (high in omega-6), gluten (chickpea, rice, lentil pasta instead of wheat), cooking with hydrogenated oils, preservatives, pr…

Red meat is not necessarily high in omega 6, and on the contrary grass fed meat can be high in omega 3. Also the debate is still out on whether or not omega 6 is inflammatory or not, and even omega 6 rich nuts are probably health promoting in typical quantities. From my understanding gluten is probably fine for those that don’t have a sensitivity. I think you should caveat your claims about diet since we don’t totall…

Fair enough, I'll rephrase it this way: most large mammal meat causes inflammation for me and my partner, whereas chicken, turkey, fish, rabbit, etc are all fine (and I should say I used to basically eat meat with carbs). As far as omega fatty acids are concerned, I believe one shouldn't let their omega-6 and omega-9 levels be much higher than omega-3. Gluten is associated with all sorts of issues that I think we will be learning more about in the next few years. There are plenty of alternatives so that one is easy for me. I can still make pasta (chickpea, lentil, brown rice), and use tortillas (almond, chickpea, cassava).

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#35

Post by scubadude »

datameta wrote: post #34
nikkwong wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Red meat is not necessarily high in omega 6, and on the contrary grass fed meat can be high in omega 3. Also the debate is still out on whether or not omega 6 is inflammatory or not, and even omega 6 rich nuts are probably health promoting in typical quantities. From my understanding gluten is probably fine for those that don’t have a sensitivity. I think you should caveat your claims about diet since we don’t totall…

Fair enough, I'll rephrase it this way: most large mammal meat causes inflammation for me and my partner, whereas chicken, turkey, fish, rabbit, etc are all fine (and I should say I used to basically eat meat with carbs). As far as omega fatty acids are concerned, I believe one shouldn't let their omega-6 and omega-9 levels be much higher than omega-3. Gluten is associated with all sorts of issues that I think we wil…

How can you possibly measure inflammation much less attribute it to a single variable?

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#36

Post by mobilejdral »

adamredwoods wrote: post #20
pajep wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those that are curious and not well verse in research level biology, what kind of food, drink and lifestyle will help maintain a gut biome that prevent Alzheimer

If diet had an effect on Alzheimer's, then those patients that have altered medical diets / starve at the end would show improvement, no?

From the linked article:

"... something as simple as taking fish oils had reduced dementia risk by 9%. This is equivalent to the risk reduction found from quitting smoking. However, the effect is not the same without B vitamins."

So yeah. My summary simply illuminates the pathway/reason why as well as why there are so many confusing comorbidities.

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#37

Post by blueorange8 »

nikkwong wrote: post #14
datameta wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fatty fish, most nuts (that don't have high omega-6, which is inflammatory), fruits high in antioxidants like berries and dark fruit in general, colorful vegetable, cooking with olive/avocado/sunflower oil, *kefir* which is the champion of all good microbiota inducers As for avoiding : red meat (high in omega-6), gluten (chickpea, rice, lentil pasta instead of wheat), cooking with hydrogenated oils, preservatives, pr…

Red meat is not necessarily high in omega 6, and on the contrary grass fed meat can be high in omega 3. Also the debate is still out on whether or not omega 6 is inflammatory or not, and even omega 6 rich nuts are probably health promoting in typical quantities. From my understanding gluten is probably fine for those that don’t have a sensitivity. I think you should caveat your claims about diet since we don’t totall…

My understanding is that you need a balance between omega 6 and omega 3 and omega 6 is not necessarily bad if its the right ratio between 6 and 3

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#38

Post by mobilejdral »

cabaalis wrote: post #25
reaperman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refuse to copy/paste ChatGPT but it breaks it down well enough to help you target specific slices of the statement to google yourself and do your own analysis of the accuracy of the claims. This shouldn’t come across as “lmgtfy” and also nothing ChatGPT says can be taken as fact, but I do think it provided some helpful restructuring of the original. I think its probably (mildly) overly pessimistic about some less-s…

Wow. When someone is so well versed in a topic that everyone else has to use the world's most popular and advanced artificial intelligence to understand what they have just said. Bravo.

Haha I tossed together that sentance before running to a meeting. I simply know the topic to such detail and intimately that I didn't think to make it simpler. If I had known it was going to be tossed at ChatGPT I would have fleshed it out more. The key thing that ChatGPT missed in its summary was that the entire PVN is often downregulated in Alzheimer's. This is where you get all of the other comorbidities that don't make sense and are red herrings such as thyroid issues and leads to a direct pathway to the reduction of myelin sheaths which is a crucial requirement before dementia.

Once you see the pathway you can't unsee it.

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#39

Post by stevenwoo »

WanderPanda wrote: post #27
stevenwoo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting avenue, though a problem is that updates and interviews with Ed Yong post book appear to show they could only treat one thing - c diff effectively with fecal transplants and that is apparently temporary, with recent studies show it lasting possibly a year before another transplant is necessary, and that probiotics via food like yogurt/kefir cultures only last as long as you eat the food regularly,…

I know nothing about this but to me „highly processed“ seems like such a broad term that it seems unlikely that every form of processing is bad. Would be great if we could instead enumerated the handful worst offenders which would make it easier for people to see the causal relationship and adapt their behavior in a more fine-grained way

There are a lot of different studies and my comment was pretty short, but this is an explanation and evaluation of the generally used system for classifying food into ultra high processed versus not. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-022-01099-1 Most studies involving human diet involve self reporting so that's why its important to understand the limitations of that classification system.

There have been lots of studies showing a connection with microbiome changes, though some countries have been later than the USA in adopting more ultra high processed foods, allowing a more timely study, here is one about Spanish citizens and tried to guide the self reporting diet a bit more specifically about where to categorize their food intake. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8398738/

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#40

Post by _jal »

bagels wrote: post #29
chiefalchemist wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The usual. The way we evolved: Avoid processed foods and move (i.e., exercise). Obviously, only take antibiotics when absolutely necessary.

What does processed even mean? Unless I run out in the field and bite a cow, that meat is going to be processed. Likewise with potatoes, I'm going to be eating unpalatable starchy uncooked potatoes.

I take it you interpret "save money" to mean keep yourself barely fed, clothed and housed, and otherwise consuming the bare minimum so that you can maximize the amount you put away?

If not, you might want to loosen your interpretation of words in other domains, too.

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