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Cloudflare Sippy: Incrementally Migrate Data from AWS S3 to Reduce Egress Fees

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare Sippy: Incrementally Migrate Data from AWS S3 to Reduce Egress Fees

#31

Post by NicoJuicy »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #30
andrewstuart wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain more? Wait time isn’t calculated as compute?

Kenton describes a bit here what they measure and how: https://community.cloudflare.com/t/how-is-cpu-time-per-reque... Cloudflare is only billing that actual cpu-time. Edit: this is a better resource https://blog.cloudflare.com/workers-pricing-scale-to-zero/

That's partially why so many llm/ai apps use cloudflare.

An API call can take a lot of seconds. While Cloudflare only bills cpu-time ( eg. 10 ms. ). Other providers bill those seconds too as "duration", while the CPU was just sitting idle.

Re: Cloudflare Sippy: Incrementally Migrate Data from AWS S3 to Reduce Egress Fees

#32

Post by AmericanChopper »

hobo_mark wrote: post #28
anonzzzies wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is; as a tiny SaaS owner, we still get massive DDOS attacks a few times per year. With other services I would pay a fortune; with CF it’s free. Downtime has people walk away and CF saved my bacon many times. If there are friendlier alternatives that work as effective then I have not found. Mind you, I don’t mind paying a few 100$/mo for such a service but on aws etc one attack burns that for more than a y…

> as a tiny SaaS owner, we still get massive DDOS attacks a few times per year Wow, why? Extortion? Competition? Collateral damage?

Not sure about the parent commender, but a few of the small SaaS companies I've worked with were regularly targeted by carding and credential stuffing attacks. I don't know whether the attackers ever realised much direct benefit from targeting them, I always thought they were just soft targets for validating credit card or credential lists.

But if you don't have any DDoS protection set up, either of these attacks will essentially be L7 DDoS attacks when deployed at scale.

Re: Cloudflare Sippy: Incrementally Migrate Data from AWS S3 to Reduce Egress Fees

#34

Post by robertlagrant »

figassis wrote: post #6
pzmarzly wrote: post #4

It's a seemingly simple and obvious way to lazily migrate your data, but if using Sippy means one less thing for the application code to worry about, and (I assume) is a free add-on, then it provides a ton of value. I have to admit that Cloudflare has been killing it recently with DevX / OpsX. If I wasn't against that company's role in modern internet (as a user of Tor, their firewall is annoying to no end), I would…

This, CF is the only service that I find amazing, and that I do not use for anything. Compared to AWS, I think I prefer the "we're your unopinionated infra provider, if you want a WAF we have that too", vs the CF "block the world, especially the developing world, give zero craps about it". I fundamentally would be unhappy as their customer even if their service were stellar because I do not want my apps to be associa…

I don't think they're especially blocking the developing world. They're blocking attacks. If you have a better way to do it, way so. Otherwise, their approach is the best way to do what they do, to your knowledge.

Anthropomorphizing technical services is probably not going to lead to good conclusions. Better suggestions will.

Re: Cloudflare Sippy: Incrementally Migrate Data from AWS S3 to Reduce Egress Fees

#35

Post by viraptor »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #32
hobo_mark wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as a tiny SaaS owner, we still get massive DDOS attacks a few times per year Wow, why? Extortion? Competition? Collateral damage?

Not sure about the parent commender, but a few of the small SaaS companies I've worked with were regularly targeted by carding and credential stuffing attacks. I don't know whether the attackers ever realised much direct benefit from targeting them, I always thought they were just soft targets for validating credit card or credential lists. But if you don't have any DDoS protection set up, either of these attacks wil…

Those are completely different things though. If someone is trying to validate credentials/cards using your service, they're not trying to DoS it. Those types are usually using only a few IPs and are easy to detect/block (or even tarpit and help others) at app/proxy level. (Multiple failures for different usernames - block for some time)

You need DDoS protection when someone does not want your service to stay up.

Re: Cloudflare Sippy: Incrementally Migrate Data from AWS S3 to Reduce Egress Fees

#36

Post by anonzzzies »

hobo_mark wrote: post #28
anonzzzies wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is; as a tiny SaaS owner, we still get massive DDOS attacks a few times per year. With other services I would pay a fortune; with CF it’s free. Downtime has people walk away and CF saved my bacon many times. If there are friendlier alternatives that work as effective then I have not found. Mind you, I don’t mind paying a few 100$/mo for such a service but on aws etc one attack burns that for more than a y…

> as a tiny SaaS owner, we still get massive DDOS attacks a few times per year Wow, why? Extortion? Competition? Collateral damage?

They seem to be crawling the site but with 1000s-100000s of bots and ips. Happens several times per year.

When bot fight is on, we don’t notice anything.

Re: Cloudflare Sippy: Incrementally Migrate Data from AWS S3 to Reduce Egress Fees

#37

Post by sylvain_kerkour »

Great to finally see this here! Cloudflare is the 4th major cloud platform that (almost) nobody is seeing coming, and I believe that they will even surpass Google Cloud Platform's sooner than expected.

The only problem that remains is their support...

I'm writing a book about Cloudflare (launching very soon) where I share this and many other things to scale faster all while saving big on your cloud bills. You can join the waiting list here: https://kerkour.com/subscribe

Re: Cloudflare Sippy: Incrementally Migrate Data from AWS S3 to Reduce Egress Fees

#38

Post by NicoJuicy »

sylvain_kerkour wrote: post #37

Great to finally see this here! Cloudflare is the 4th major cloud platform that (almost) nobody is seeing coming, and I believe that they will even surpass Google Cloud Platform's sooner than expected. The only problem that remains is their support... I'm writing a book about Cloudflare (launching very soon) where I share this and many other things to scale faster all while saving big on your cloud bills. You can joi…

I follow cloudflare closely and we use them at work. I agree with your statement :)

Their support is superbe, but it takes a while to access.

The only time we needed them, the chat option seemed relatively quick.

+ they pointed us to a tls connect issue at Azure with a very detailed analysis of why.

Thing is. If you see a cloudflare error page, it's probably you're hosting provider and not cloudflare...

Re: Cloudflare Sippy: Incrementally Migrate Data from AWS S3 to Reduce Egress Fees

#39

Post by lozenge »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #31
NicoJuicy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kenton describes a bit here what they measure and how: https://community.cloudflare.com/t/how-is-cpu-time-per-reque... Cloudflare is only billing that actual cpu-time. Edit: this is a better resource https://blog.cloudflare.com/workers-pricing-scale-to-zero/

That's partially why so many llm/ai apps use cloudflare. An API call can take a lot of seconds. While Cloudflare only bills cpu-time ( eg. 10 ms. ). Other providers bill those seconds too as "duration", while the CPU was just sitting idle.

I can see both sides because you are reserving that amount of RAM while your process is running. The Lambda price is also proportional to the RAM reserved.

Re: Cloudflare Sippy: Incrementally Migrate Data from AWS S3 to Reduce Egress Fees

#40

Post by lozenge »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #18
lhoff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That thought was my first impression as well. However with a second thought i'm not sure if i'm convinced by the long time scenario that you would end up using this tool. After all it only makes sense to use this tool if you never intent to migrate the data completely. Which means, the data will till the end be scatered between AWS and Cloudflare with no apparent system other than the last access. Maybe I am overlook…

Nah. This is literally to have a migration path and to only occur once the Amazon eggres fees. At the end, you can still decide to migrate all data or to abandon the not-used-till-now data.

Yes, it's free/very cheap to move S3 data to a tier like Infrequent Access or Glacier with lower monthly cost and higher retrieval cost.
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