Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

cdn2.psychologytoday.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 124 posts

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#31

Post by winrid »

b112 wrote: post #17
Apocryphon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could bike, but how many neighborhoods are safely bikeable?

Every one I've ever seen. Most places I've seen, yes in the US, have bike paths, and houses are typically in a separate area from main thoroughfares. Why wouldn't a kid bike to a friend's house, or a local park?

I live in a decently nice neighborhood in San Jose. Houses $2-3m. People constantly run the stop signs, they don't slow down at all, 30-40mph. I've only lived here one month and I already saw a car hit a pedestrian on a scooter at an intersection (and the guy just drove off).

The issue is just don't care, it seems. :(

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#32

Post by deepsun »

scaramanga wrote: post #19
baron816 wrote: post #2

The Coddling of the American Mind is a good book on this topic https://www.thecoddling.com/ .

It's on a different topic. ie. That if people speak up for themselves, or they want to address unfairness or inequality in their society, it's because their parents hugged them when they cried as babies, instead of ignoring them, or whatever you're supposed to do to "toughen them up" (ie. turn them into terrified adults, washed up in middle age, who see any new youth movement as a life-threatening trend that must be…

My parents had several children, and they always say that they noticed behavioral differences even in the first baby months. In other words, some behavioral traits or impulses are more due to nature, not nurtured by their parents. Some babies cry more, some less, some eat more, some less, even if you approach them equally.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#33

Post by Apocryphon »

b112 wrote: post #21
uoaei wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've evidently never heard of a meta-analysis.

In the real Foundation books, which the TV series barely resembles, this was part of the galactic empire's decline. With so many studies done, over tens of thousands of years, on millions of planets, each with hundreds of millions of people, there was an immense load of prior work. And meta-analysis was where all research ended up. Just read a bunch of papers, summarize them, and write a new paper. Scientific researc…

Without disputing that Asimov might have brought up such a concept somewhere in the series, it certainly is not a prime factor mentioned in the first novel.

"Good. Add to this the known probability of Imperial assassination, viceregal revolt, the contemporary recurrence of periods of economic depression, the declining rate of planetary explorations, the..."

[...]

Gaal said, "As Trantor becomes more specialized, it becomes more vulnerable, less able to defend itself. Further, as it becomes more and more the administrative center of Empire, it becomes a greater prize. As the Imperial succession becomes more and more uncertain, and the feuds among the great families more rampant, social responsibility disappears."

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#34

Post by Apocryphon »

b112 wrote: post #25
Apocryphon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all bike paths exist in quiet suburbs. Some exist along busy main roads, which make them dangerous even for adult riders.

That's not really a bike path, now is it? It's a painted lane on a road. I've never been in a place where I had to take a "busy main road" to get around locally. Cross it sometimes, sure, which can be done at a light. This sort of highlights the problem. Over-protectiveness, by examining the worst that can happen, and the worst scenario.

Well, frankly, perhaps you haven't been to that many places.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#35

Post by b800h »

caconym_ wrote: post #28
b112 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the real Foundation books, which the TV series barely resembles, this was part of the galactic empire's decline. With so many studies done, over tens of thousands of years, on millions of planets, each with hundreds of millions of people, there was an immense load of prior work. And meta-analysis was where all research ended up. Just read a bunch of papers, summarize them, and write a new paper. Scientific researc…

Despite Asimov's opinion on the matter, it seems that in reality the meta-analysis is a useful tool for understanding the de facto scientific consensus on some topic beyond the scope of a single paper/study.

I think the original naive critique is valid though. What if the consensus is wrong? But of course, it's better than one random study, unless you particularly trust that researcher and none of the others.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#36

Post by sarkhan »

scaramanga wrote: post #23
btilly wrote: post #5

This is something that free range parenting advocates have been talking about for a long time. See https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/03/6412565... . For me one of the most compelling data points wasn't even a parenting reference. It was https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Amer... . First published in the mid-1990s, the chapters on the children of millionaires found that the more su…

I'd love to read the papers cited there without having to buy that book. I wonder if what is defined as "support" is actually, meddling, undermining, and pressurzing children into fulfilling the parents needs.

Well, it comes a lot of from the good stuff that involved parenting does.

In other words, even taking kids to school in a car instead them walking (or at least on the bike, but their own feet still involved, therefore they are themselves 100% in control in going to school) is the support that is not the in the list of "support" but will be in the long run. I should mention, I do recognize the time constraints of current society.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#37

Post by Apocryphon »

b800h wrote: post #35
caconym_ wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite Asimov's opinion on the matter, it seems that in reality the meta-analysis is a useful tool for understanding the de facto scientific consensus on some topic beyond the scope of a single paper/study.

I think the original naive critique is valid though. What if the consensus is wrong? But of course, it's better than one random study, unless you particularly trust that researcher and none of the others.

Still not sure where he mentions it in the series, but I wonder if it's Asimov making up a far futuristic galactic version of Scholasticism, with its focus on reinterpreting existing works, for his far future version of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#38

Post by riffraff »

Apocryphon wrote: post #13
adrianN wrote: post #11

How are children in car-centric societies supposed to be independent when they need adults to drive them to places?

They could bike, but how many neighborhoods are safely bikeable?

I grew up in a small town where everybody drove everywhere and bike lane did not exist, but as a kid we grew up biking on the roads or walking around. Our typical soccer pitch was a partly secluded street, and getting the ball stuck under a car was the norm.

Now in my home town there are zero kids on the street. Culture has shifted drastically.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#39

Post by lelanthran »

earthscienceman wrote: post #3

Wait. Does this pass for science in these fields, psychology and medicine? They summarize various statistics from prior papers as if they are trends across space and time (hello sample bias, are there papers that contradict their claims they are omitting because it doesn't fit their thesis?) and then make broad conclusions based on anecdotal evidence and sweeping theories. This should barely pass as a "kids these day…

> Does this pass for science in these fields, psychology and medicine? They summarize various statistics from prior papers as if they are trends across space and time (hello sample bias, are there papers that contradict their claims they are omitting because it doesn't fit their thesis?) and then make broad conclusions based on anecdotal evidence and sweeping theories.

I feel that if you've never heard of a meta-study then you must not be very deep into science at all - like, even undergraduates know what a meta-study is.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#40

Post by btilly »

scaramanga wrote: post #23
btilly wrote: post #5

This is something that free range parenting advocates have been talking about for a long time. See https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/03/6412565... . For me one of the most compelling data points wasn't even a parenting reference. It was https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Amer... . First published in the mid-1990s, the chapters on the children of millionaires found that the more su…

I'd love to read the papers cited there without having to buy that book. I wonder if what is defined as "support" is actually, meddling, undermining, and pressurzing children into fulfilling the parents needs.

The book wasn't a compilation of independent research papers. It was produced out of a compilation of interviews done to better understand millionaires.

Support was defined by the wealthy parent providing financial support, whether through a stipend, gifts, or whatever. It turned out that, despite the best of intentions, such support almost inevitably wound up with destructive emotional dynamics.

Post reply on HN