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Finding a Tech Job Is Still a Nightmare

wired.com

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Re: Finding a Tech Job Is Still a Nightmare

#31

Post by saagarjha »

mg wrote: post #15

I'm surprised there is still so much friction about white collar jobs like programming. One could think that by now, it should be easy for developers to "jump into" a codebase and suggest changes (aka pull requests). Turning the world of developer jobs into a fluid system that adapts instantly to demand and supply. It works pretty well for Wikipedia, where everyone can jump in and edit articles. And then there is som…

How would one jump into a codebase they’ve never seen and isn’t available freely?

Re: Finding a Tech Job Is Still a Nightmare

#32

Post by BaculumMeumEst »

dxuh wrote: post #26
BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #20

it's really not, if you're the slightest bit strategic about it, and seek employment outside of san francisco. i suppose that wired's editors know this, but like many publications, they will gleefully sow fear, doubt, and anxiety into people who don't know any better in order to make a small amount of money.

What does being strategic about it mean to you? Just searching outside of San Francisco? Because I have only searched inside the EU and I find it quite difficult.

searching for roles outside of "software developer", e.g. "it analyst", "programmer analyst", etc. or even just keyword searching for basic software like excel and seeing what comes back. there's lots of well paying, boring jobs, provided by organizations that are flush with money need specific tasks done and don't understand how easy it is to do them.

or more accurately, an individual or small team within an organization is flush with money, because organizations are not monoliths. they are out there, desperately trying to hire people, only finding duds.

i can't really speak to the market in the EU, though, only the united states, where my personal experience lies.

Re: Finding a Tech Job Is Still a Nightmare

#33

Post by [deleted] »

sph wrote: post #21
mg wrote: post #15

I'm surprised there is still so much friction about white collar jobs like programming. One could think that by now, it should be easy for developers to "jump into" a codebase and suggest changes (aka pull requests). Turning the world of developer jobs into a fluid system that adapts instantly to demand and supply. It works pretty well for Wikipedia, where everyone can jump in and edit articles. And then there is som…

> I wonder what the biggest hindrances are. Three-tiered interview system, flaky interviewers, flaky candidates, insane job requirements for mundane positions, useless recruiters, fake job ads, "hybrid" work? It's a bloody mess and it has always been. My best interview was in 2006, at my first junior position, when the guy just asked my experience in Linux, what does "ifconfig" do, what languages I know, and I got a…

[deleted]

Re: Finding a Tech Job Is Still a Nightmare

#34

Post by dijit »

I feel like the industry has been actively trying to suppress tech workers wages for at least the last 15 years.

I am hoping that this message coming from someone with as much Karma as I have will be a signal that I'm not trying to troll- though what I say next will definitely be controversial.

The push for "everyone can code" and the large investment in coding bootcamps (especially focused on diversity to increase the pool as much as possible) and the rise of tools like leetcode (many backed directly and indirectly by big tech companies, especially google) creates a very wide funnel to create as many software engineers as the market will allow.

A large demand can still be a comparatively low demand if your supply is larger.

It's my firm belief that the needs of software engineers hasn't gone down at all; just that we have enough software engineers now that we're not "special" and thus we can be paid like normal administrative staff like project managers and other white collar work.

Re: Finding a Tech Job Is Still a Nightmare

#35

Post by sph »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #28
sph wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder what the biggest hindrances are. Three-tiered interview system, flaky interviewers, flaky candidates, insane job requirements for mundane positions, useless recruiters, fake job ads, "hybrid" work? It's a bloody mess and it has always been. My best interview was in 2006, at my first junior position, when the guy just asked my experience in Linux, what does "ifconfig" do, what languages I know, and I got a…

it's the outcome of saturation. the barriers to entry get higher and higher.

Yes, which is why the meme that there are more open positions than engineers is bollocks. That might've been the case in the era of free money (RIP 2008-2020), when tech was in a hiring spree and engineers switched jobs every 6 months.

Re: Finding a Tech Job Is Still a Nightmare

#36

Post by meiraleal »

sph wrote: post #21
mg wrote: post #15

I'm surprised there is still so much friction about white collar jobs like programming. One could think that by now, it should be easy for developers to "jump into" a codebase and suggest changes (aka pull requests). Turning the world of developer jobs into a fluid system that adapts instantly to demand and supply. It works pretty well for Wikipedia, where everyone can jump in and edit articles. And then there is som…

> I wonder what the biggest hindrances are. Three-tiered interview system, flaky interviewers, flaky candidates, insane job requirements for mundane positions, useless recruiters, fake job ads, "hybrid" work? It's a bloody mess and it has always been. My best interview was in 2006, at my first junior position, when the guy just asked my experience in Linux, what does "ifconfig" do, what languages I know, and I got a…

> which might be more desperate than you and gladly work for peanuts, 3 days in the office.

Yeah, 3 days in the office is impossible to beat, they most be really desperate! /s

Now talking seriously, Software Engineering is a great career, probably the best out there. You don't need to work for anybody to make money if the big problem is the job market. You can literally create your job with a few months work. Now is every person capable of it? No, many don't have the grit and discipline. But that is not tech's fault. Is a people's issue. To call it Squid Game to get a 6 figures salary working from home is insanity.

Re: Finding a Tech Job Is Still a Nightmare

#37

Post by meiraleal »

mg wrote: post #15

I'm surprised there is still so much friction about white collar jobs like programming. One could think that by now, it should be easy for developers to "jump into" a codebase and suggest changes (aka pull requests). Turning the world of developer jobs into a fluid system that adapts instantly to demand and supply. It works pretty well for Wikipedia, where everyone can jump in and edit articles. And then there is som…

You described Github

Re: Finding a Tech Job Is Still a Nightmare

#38

Post by guenthert »

JohnMakin wrote: post #10

Tech unemployment is still extremely low, so these articles always feel a bit off by not mentioning that.

> Tech unemployment is still extremely low

How do you know that? Does the government know that or does it only count those applying for unemployment 'benefits', which i) aren't paid for long and ii) don't even suffice to pay the rent if you live in the S.F. Bay Area. I'd rather think that most who lost their job in the tech industry moved on, i.e. work in a different sector or bide their time in an area of lower cost of living.

Re: Finding a Tech Job Is Still a Nightmare

#39

Post by sshine »

dijit wrote: post #34

I feel like the industry has been actively trying to suppress tech workers wages for at least the last 15 years. I am hoping that this message coming from someone with as much Karma as I have will be a signal that I'm not trying to troll- though what I say next will definitely be controversial. The push for "everyone can code" and the large investment in coding bootcamps (especially focused on diversity to increase t…

I believe it is a valid perspective that the corporate economic benefit behind "everyone can code" is to use the widened supply of developers to push down salaries. But I think the origin of this movement is actually a grassroots movement that seeks better opportunities for the individual.

If today comparatively more people can make the thing, maybe making the thing is only as important as planning to make the thing.

Re: Finding a Tech Job Is Still a Nightmare

#40

Post by mnk47 »

meiraleal wrote: post #36
sph wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder what the biggest hindrances are. Three-tiered interview system, flaky interviewers, flaky candidates, insane job requirements for mundane positions, useless recruiters, fake job ads, "hybrid" work? It's a bloody mess and it has always been. My best interview was in 2006, at my first junior position, when the guy just asked my experience in Linux, what does "ifconfig" do, what languages I know, and I got a…

> which might be more desperate than you and gladly work for peanuts, 3 days in the office. Yeah, 3 days in the office is impossible to beat, they most be really desperate! /s Now talking seriously, Software Engineering is a great career, probably the best out there. You don't need to work for anybody to make money if the big problem is the job market. You can literally create your job with a few months work. Now is…

Is it really as easy as "grit and discipline"? I find it hard to believe. Everything I've read about consulting work, indie gamedev, and one-man-SaaS apps has a similar message: that previous experience and luck are huge factors, and there's a lot of financial risk involved. Small businesses fail all the time for reasons other than lack of grit and discipline.
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