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Are we heading for World War Three?

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31–40 of 43 posts

Re: Are we heading for World War Three?

#31

Having lived through Vietnam, Pol Pot, Munich Olympics, the height of the cold war and then the collapse of the Soviet Union and most Communism, Iranian hostages, Korean Air 007, any number of incidents in the middle east, more revolutions and coups in Africa than I can point to, bombings in Bali, Tianenmen Square, Falkland Islands, US invasions of Iraq, Grenada, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and on and on.... Why would…

I don't think they're different. I think in both those situations and today they all had a small chance of kicking off WW3. If we keep rolling that D20 eventually we will roll a 1.

you mean a 3

Re: Are we heading for World War Three?

#32

Having lived through Vietnam, Pol Pot, Munich Olympics, the height of the cold war and then the collapse of the Soviet Union and most Communism, Iranian hostages, Korean Air 007, any number of incidents in the middle east, more revolutions and coups in Africa than I can point to, bombings in Bali, Tianenmen Square, Falkland Islands, US invasions of Iraq, Grenada, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and on and on.... Why would…

So, I lived through a lot of that and feel like some of this is people either forgetting or not having experienced what it was like pre-cold war thaw.

On the other hand, Ukraine feels different to me for some reason and seems tied to broader territorial ambitions, which wasn't exactly the case before because the territory was put in place in WWII. There was Afghanistan etc but that didn't have the domino implications of NATO.

The Soviet state also seemed more stable to me than the current megalomaniac plutocracy.

China also didn't have the same presence it does now. There's more big players in some ways.

On the other hand, for awhile there in the past there were nuclear drills in classrooms, and it was for a reason.

I don't really see WWIII happening soon but if things continue to escalate everywhere it seems reasonable to wonder about it. People wondered then too.

Re: Are we heading for World War Three?

#33
Absolutely headed towards WW3.

It's an unpopular opinion on HN which is US-based, but the US is being forced towards a terminal lack of diplomacy by two doctrines: "US Exceptionalism" and the "Wolfowitz Doctrine".

And the US of 2023 is not the US of 1942. The outcome is inevitable.

Re: Are we heading for World War Three?

#34

> A leading academic at the University of Cambridge told the i news site in March that the technology could, in an extreme case, “mistake a bird as an incoming threat and trigger a nuclear launch if no human override is in place to assess alerts from an AI-assisted early-warning system”. With all due respect to the "leading academic", this is one of the most stupid things I read this year. But then I read this: > Alt…

> Although no state is openly attempting to automate its nuclear weapons systems

What about the Perimeter/Dead Hand system from the Soviet Union/Russia? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand

Re: Are we heading for World War Three?

#36

Absolutely headed towards WW3. It's an unpopular opinion on HN which is US-based, but the US is being forced towards a terminal lack of diplomacy by two doctrines: "US Exceptionalism" and the "Wolfowitz Doctrine". And the US of 2023 is not the US of 1942. The outcome is inevitable.

No current neoliberal, neocon, or narcissistic populist American leader would precipitate a nuclear exchange because they enjoy self-preservation too much.

The risks are primarily of 3 scenarios spiraling out of control:

A. India attacks Pakistan. Like Likud, India's government is full of crazy BJP war hawks.

B. Putin's power were threatened. His view is that Ukrainian aid is waning and the Hamas attack takes attention away, so he feels pretty safe for now.

C. China attacks Taiwan. Xi is an arrogant autocrat, expanding neocolonial with Belt and Road Initiative, and believe they own the South China Sea. I don't see how this could end without either China obliterating Taiwan manufacturing base or a wider exchange.

Furthermore, it's far more relatively "tolerable" by the international order to diffusely level areas by continual conventional munitions accomplishing similar end results of nuclear detonations: widespread destruction. So why broach an unthinkable red line when there's an equivalent substitute?

I have belief in MAD and self-preservation are the ultimate deterrents when leaders aren't suicidal.

I also believe MAD serves a purpose to prevent future conventional World Wars. Denuclearization, while aspirationally wonderful, would counterintuitively make the world less safe because the average person doesn't understand what actually keeps them safe: a strong military.

The US could get by on 1/3 the amount of defense spending. It's spending way, way too much on boondoggles, pork projects, and the MIC's revolving door of generals and defense contractors.

Re: Are we heading for World War Three?

#37

It certainly feels like we are headed to an armed confrontation with a state armed with nuclear weapons. I doubt we will truly fight over Taiwan and the USA is bluffing and North Korea isn’t going to start a fight, but I think Iran or Russia or Russian proxies could easily devolve into all out war.

In the US, JCS chief Milley and some other guy (SecDef?) made a deal between them - and informed underlings - that if Trump reaches for nukes, nothing is released without the okay of one of them. I wonder if there is a similar firewall of sanity between Putin and nukes. I mean, at some point he's goin' down. Isn't he?

Ironically he was probably the least likely of the last 6-7 presidents of resorting to nukes. Trump is a lot of awful things but you can’t really say he is a warmonger. If anything, the use of nukes would undermine his reputation as a deal maker. His ego would never survive the obvious dealmaking failure that the use of nukes would mean.

Re: Are we heading for World War Three?

#38
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the rate of conflict in those places compare to the past few decades? I have no context to evaluate if 8 coups in Africa since 2020 is high relative to history.

Legitimate question, not trying to be snarky, is this not self-evident to you? The fighting in Donbass eventually leading to a hot war between Ukraine and Russia doesn't seem like a step up in the fighting? Israel dropping enough JDAMs into the Gaza strip to turn Khan Yunis into crunchy sand doesn't feel like things are getting worse? The political situation in the Black Sea feels like it has slowly but surely gotten…

It is absolutely not self evident to me.

I don't have high confidence that what the situation feels like based on the media that is readily available to me accurately reflects reality. Especially when it comes to international relations. There's always news about how the sky is falling.

I honestly haven't followed the various conflicts around the world closely enough over the years to trust any gut evaluation I could make of the current situation vs, say, the conflicts in Syria, Afganistan, Iraq, and Yugoslavia, just to make a few, from the last few decades.

These conflicts are terrible, but what that actually means to the international community on the order of years is non-trivial and far from self evident AFAICT

Re: Are we heading for World War Three?

#39
post #35
post #22

Does anyone have a plan for avoiding it?

It involves Gabe Newell running the UN. Not saying it's a good option, but it should delay WW3 indefinitely.

You made me actually LOL on such a depressing thread, happy Friday to you :D
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