It's time to level up headphone tech • Hacker News Board

Re: It's time to level up headphone tech

#31

Post by dfc » Sun, Apr 01, 2012, 9:00 PM UTC

morsch wrote: post #25

dfc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"even outside the realm of speciality gear for more efficiently killing people." FYI, this discussion is made possible because of DARPAnet and other innovation boosts drawn from the realm of "more efficently killing people" . So handwaving/ignoring tech.mil seems a little short sighted at the very least. But let's return to: "What good is a directional microphone and why (and lacking a microphone, how?) would a headp…

What would the directional microphone do in those circumstances?

When I came up with the list I was considering your initial question about a directional microphone and "why distinguish between voices and background noise?" So some of my examples were not restricted to directional microphones only. Given the new constraints:

Factory workers: Increase awareness about the sounds of the machinery the worker is operating and ignore the sounds of nearby machines. In a more hostile/mobile environment where the worker does not need to be so in tune with their own machine the directional microphone could provide the same benefit as it does with construction workers.

Construction workers: amplify noises from directions where the worker is not looking and therefore increase awareness of threats from blind spots.

Bird watching in the amazon: Isolate/focus scientists hearing in the direction of the bird that they are observing. Thereby reducing the possibility that they attribute sounds/songs from other birds to the bird they are observing.

News camera man: increase ability to hear sounds in front of camera man and/or directions from reporter/crew members while reducing distraction of environmental sounds.

Why are you moving the goal posts?

Re: It's time to level up headphone tech

#32

Post by oblique63 » Sun, Apr 01, 2012, 9:19 PM UTC

djloche wrote: post #2

While I agree with the general sentiment expressed (people buy poor quality headphones that leak music and proceed to seemingly obliviously blast their music for all to hear), please consider investigating higher quality headphones & their tech. From a well known audiophile guide to headphones: "In general it's best to avoid products made by Skullcandy, Bose, Beats, or Monster unless otherwise specified...These compa…

I also recommend checking out the [semi-open] Beyerdynamic DT 880 pros (~$300). They're really crisp, with great clear bass reproduction, and have an amazingly 'analytical' sound with their wide soundstage.

Absolutely one of the best pair of headphones you could get if you do any sort of audio mixing work, but they're really nice for casual listening as well.

Re: It's time to level up headphone tech

#33

Post by gouranga » Sun, Apr 01, 2012, 10:19 PM UTC

oblique63 wrote: post #32

djloche wrote: post #2

While I agree with the general sentiment expressed (people buy poor quality headphones that leak music and proceed to seemingly obliviously blast their music for all to hear), please consider investigating higher quality headphones & their tech. From a well known audiophile guide to headphones: "In general it's best to avoid products made by Skullcandy, Bose, Beats, or Monster unless otherwise specified...These compa…

I also recommend checking out the [semi-open] Beyerdynamic DT 880 pros (~$300). They're really crisp, with great clear bass reproduction, and have an amazingly 'analytical' sound with their wide soundstage. Absolutely one of the best pair of headphones you could get if you do any sort of audio mixing work, but they're really nice for casual listening as well.

> amazingly 'analytical' sound with their wide soundstage.

You sound like a HiFi journo.

Techie here:

Sennheiser HD-25 II's here. Paid 35GBP new (on offer one fine day). I can run the cable over with my desk chair 100 times a day for 8 years and they still work like the day they were bought...

Re: It's time to level up headphone tech

#34

Post by jmspring » Sun, Apr 01, 2012, 11:27 PM UTC

gammarator wrote: post #29

djloche wrote: post #2

While I agree with the general sentiment expressed (people buy poor quality headphones that leak music and proceed to seemingly obliviously blast their music for all to hear), please consider investigating higher quality headphones & their tech. From a well known audiophile guide to headphones: "In general it's best to avoid products made by Skullcandy, Bose, Beats, or Monster unless otherwise specified...These compa…

Here's the guide in question: http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-buying-guide

Head-fi is a great resource.

I tend to run IEMs myself, my target being good fit, good sound, and blocking background noise.

I started with Shure E2Cs and moved on to Westones. With IEMs, it really comes down to preference of fit and sound signature. Westones are my preferred between the two, though going for the higher end, while sounding great, I can't quite justify...

Re: It's time to level up headphone tech

#35

Post by netik » Sun, Apr 01, 2012, 11:58 PM UTC

Ultimate ears UE-7 IEMs, custom molded to the listener have excellent noise rejection and eliminate the need for any sort of noise-cancelling microphone/DSP hardware as they're molded to your ears and block out the world.

If you want to do mastering with IEMs, the UE Reference monitors were developed with Columbia studios and are extremely accurate.

Forgive the fact that UE was bought by Logitech, who manufactures less than stellar user interface devices. Ultimate Ears are amazing.

I'm not even sure what the poster is looking for here. Simple physics get in the way of most of the lower cost designs. You can't block out the world without a proper fit (molds), you can't pack a ton of circuitry into the IEMs without size being a factor, and it requires tuning and alignment to make these devices accurate.

There's a reason why UE's are expensive - Someone has to hand build and align them. It's worth it.

http://blog.logitech.com/2009/06/11/behind-the-scenes-ultima...

Re: It's time to level up headphone tech

#36

Post by philwelch » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 12:44 AM UTC

shabble wrote: post #22

This is something I've put a lot of thought into over the last couple of years, but I've never gotten around to figuring out an actual model or design. My basic premises are: * hearing aids are commonly moulded to fit the individual, and thus have exceptionally good noise rejection. * They are designed to be worn for long periods of time without discomfort. * The ability to selectively attenuate/amplify certain signa…

> * hearing aids are commonly moulded to fit the individual, and thus have exceptionally good noise rejection.

> * They are designed to be worn for long periods of time without discomfort.

There are already headphones you can get that are moulded to the individual ear. Touring musicians use them on stage for monitors.

The problem with this is that extended hearing aid or in-ear headphone usage is not really the best thing for your ears. Your ears are supposed to ventilate. It's especially problematic if you have an ear infection.

Re: It's time to level up headphone tech

#37

Post by skybrian » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 12:45 AM UTC

I got a fairly advanced hearing aid recently and originally thought they might be useful for listening to music too, like a good pair of headphones. This turns out not to be the case. Hearing aids don't have any bass. When listening to music, the best thing I've found is to use a regular speaker system along with hearing aids that allow some sound to go through them (the earpiece should have a reasonably large vent hole, rather than acting more like an earplug). Also, the DSP algorithms are tuned for speech so I got mine programmed with a "music mode", which turns most of that off for listening to music.

There are other limitations - the hearing aids don't support bluetooth directly (the antennas are too weak). Instead you have to use a streamer where the antenna is built into the lanyard that goes around your neck, and the quality is suitable for voice only. Since I don't make phone calls much, bluetooth support turned out not to be worth the trouble.

Don't get me wrong - the tech is pretty interesting, and I'd love to be able to program the DSP. But you need to know about the limitations when extrapolating.

Re: It's time to level up headphone tech

#38

Post by malandrew » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 12:55 AM UTC

oblique63 wrote: post #32

djloche wrote: post #2

While I agree with the general sentiment expressed (people buy poor quality headphones that leak music and proceed to seemingly obliviously blast their music for all to hear), please consider investigating higher quality headphones & their tech. From a well known audiophile guide to headphones: "In general it's best to avoid products made by Skullcandy, Bose, Beats, or Monster unless otherwise specified...These compa…

I also recommend checking out the [semi-open] Beyerdynamic DT 880 pros (~$300). They're really crisp, with great clear bass reproduction, and have an amazingly 'analytical' sound with their wide soundstage. Absolutely one of the best pair of headphones you could get if you do any sort of audio mixing work, but they're really nice for casual listening as well.

IMHO, the DT880s are overrated for the price. You are better off getting similarly priced Sennheisers.

I got them because they were closed, and I expected to be able to use them in public without outside sound leaking in. In practice, they let in about as much sound as the open Grado HP-1s that I used to have.

The HP-1s are much more analytical and accurate for mixing work. (yes, I know that they now cost a lot more than $300, but they didn't cost that much more when I first bought them back in 2003).

For public listening, nothing beats Etymotic ER-4P IEM with foam tips. They block out -40dB of sound with no noise canceling technology, so there is no distortion. I don't know of any other IEMs that block out that much noise (there may be other ones today, but back when I bought them they blocked out the most noise).

As far as best sound, I think the AKG K-1000s were the best sound (and a bargain at their original MSRP), but the requirement to use full-size speaker amps to drive them was tedious.

Re: It's time to level up headphone tech

#39

Post by oblique63 » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 1:14 AM UTC

gouranga wrote: post #33

oblique63 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also recommend checking out the [semi-open] Beyerdynamic DT 880 pros (~$300). They're really crisp, with great clear bass reproduction, and have an amazingly 'analytical' sound with their wide soundstage. Absolutely one of the best pair of headphones you could get if you do any sort of audio mixing work, but they're really nice for casual listening as well.

> amazingly 'analytical' sound with their wide soundstage. You sound like a HiFi journo. Techie here: Sennheiser HD-25 II's here. Paid 35GBP new (on offer one fine day). I can run the cable over with my desk chair 100 times a day for 8 years and they still work like the day they were bought...

I guess that's because I'm also a musician and do a lot of audio mixing work. I figured since we were on the subject of 'quality' that would imply having good sound, which for me means a pair of headphones that lets me clearly analyze what's going on in a busy mix.

but hey, for basic every-day usage, I like my $15 JVC Marshmallows just fine. I havent tried your HD-25s, but Sennheiser does make some good 'bang-for-your-buck' products, and I especially like their PX 200s (except for that silly volume control they have).

Re: It's time to level up headphone tech

#40

Post by oblique63 » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 1:25 AM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #38

oblique63 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also recommend checking out the [semi-open] Beyerdynamic DT 880 pros (~$300). They're really crisp, with great clear bass reproduction, and have an amazingly 'analytical' sound with their wide soundstage. Absolutely one of the best pair of headphones you could get if you do any sort of audio mixing work, but they're really nice for casual listening as well.

IMHO, the DT880s are overrated for the price. You are better off getting similarly priced Sennheisers. I got them because they were closed, and I expected to be able to use them in public without outside sound leaking in. In practice, they let in about as much sound as the open Grado HP-1s that I used to have. The HP-1s are much more analytical and accurate for mixing work. (yes, I know that they now cost a lot more…

Unfortunately it's a bit hard to find places that let you try out high-end headphones around here, so I'm sure there are plenty of other comprable headphones. Which Sennheisers would you recommend that are comprable to the 880s? I know of the HD650s, but I didn't have anywhere to try them out, and a lot of reviews I came across mentioned that they were a little on the warm-side and better suited for smooth music (I work with Metal). Plus, I got my 880s for about $270, and the best deal on 650s I could find was still close to $500, which was out of my price range at the time...