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Karaniya Metta Sutta: The Buddha's Words on Loving-Kindness

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Re: Karaniya Metta Sutta: The Buddha's Words on Loving-Kindness

#31
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't work for me, of course; I don't believe in rebirth. Are you still able to generate loving-kindness in yourself? If so, then those teachings that don't work for you don't matter.

Well, honestly I don't know. If I had feelings of loving kindness, I'd know that; but that would be just feelings. I don't have a loving-kindness detector, and I wouldn't know how to calibrate it if I did. I suppose one could work from hatred; people generally know if they hate something. So if one has reduced the incidence of hatred, then perhaps you could say the technique worked. I used the technique (along with o…

There is really nothing magical about metta. It's all in consistent practice.

1. You visualize a cute bunny (for example).

2. You recognize that visualizing a cute bunny makes you a bit happier.

3. You realize that you can influence your mood by visualizing cute things.

4. You train it to make it stronger and more reliable.

Re: Karaniya Metta Sutta: The Buddha's Words on Loving-Kindness

#32

Like nearly all Buddhist teachings, there are practices you can do to develop these faculties. For example, you can reflect that all beings have at one time or another been your mother, or your child; realizing this, how can you feel hatred towards any other being? It doesn't work for me, of course; I don't believe in rebirth.

> For example, you can reflect that all beings have at one time or another been your mother, or your child; realizing this, how can you feel hatred towards any other being? What's the exact cosmology again? 1. Every being is likely to be your mother 2. Every being has been your mother with certainty (beginningless time)

Buddhist cosmology holds that the cycle of rebirth is endless, so all beings have been your mother and your child at some time in the past, and will be again in the future.

So it's 2.

And for clarity, the view is that time is both beginningless and endless.

Re: Karaniya Metta Sutta: The Buddha's Words on Loving-Kindness

#33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, honestly I don't know. If I had feelings of loving kindness, I'd know that; but that would be just feelings. I don't have a loving-kindness detector, and I wouldn't know how to calibrate it if I did. I suppose one could work from hatred; people generally know if they hate something. So if one has reduced the incidence of hatred, then perhaps you could say the technique worked. I used the technique (along with o…

There is really nothing magical about metta. It's all in consistent practice. 1. You visualize a cute bunny (for example). 2. You recognize that visualizing a cute bunny makes you a bit happier. 3. You realize that you can influence your mood by visualizing cute things. 4. You train it to make it stronger and more reliable.

Sorry, but I don't think metta amounts to feeling "a bit happier" or "being in a good mood".

Metta is one of the four Brahma Viharas (foundations of Brahma). Another is karuna, or compassion; wishing others not to suffer. The standard practice in Tibet for generating compassion is called tong len ("sending and receiving", sorry, I don't know any Sanskrit word for it). You imagine someone else's suffering as a black cloud, breathe it in, and breathe out all your goodness and happiness as a white cloud, which you imagine going into them. It's a simple bolt-on for ordinary meditation on the breath. [Edit] If you have a real, suffering person to practise on, I was told that helps a lot.

Practising tong len is liable to cause depression in the practitioner, or so I was told. It's not tantric, you don't need permission to do it; but it's probably not a good idea to try it unless you have an experienced meditation instructor.

"Feeling good" is not a sign of progress in meditation.

Re: Karaniya Metta Sutta: The Buddha's Words on Loving-Kindness

#34

Like nearly all Buddhist teachings, there are practices you can do to develop these faculties. For example, you can reflect that all beings have at one time or another been your mother, or your child; realizing this, how can you feel hatred towards any other being? It doesn't work for me, of course; I don't believe in rebirth.

Yeah, I don't buy the "remembering past lives" business, but "life after death" seems like a physical certainty if you're not necessarily attached to the "self"[1]. I suppose it's sort of how life works, on our planet anyway, for the last two billion years when we invented sex to outpace the viruses. Some sort of sentient planetary slime mold might have different ideas.

One thing that's interesting is that Indian philosophy of the 800-400 BCE era had a concept congruous to the Greek atomos, the kanu. One of the neat things about kanu is that it knows where it's been, in a moral sense. This was posited as one explanation for reincarnation, all your bits fly around according to these moral laws, creating new points of awareness. Bad people burn all their energy whoring around, drinking, eating, so the kanu don't have a place to go (pigs, lower castes, etc), but good people spread their lives around, and kanu get higher life forms to coalesce into (brahmins, nice people, gods, etc). Obviously there's no morals at the Planck length, but it's an interesting notion.

Auschwitz ashes in our lungs, tears of Christ in our blood. One of Buddha's "memories" of past lives was as a man who sacrificed himself to feed a starving tiger and cubs. I've always thought that locking corpses in eternal tupperware was a little creepy.

Always keep in mind, though, at the heart of a lot of Indian philosophy is a certain brutality. I mean, the word for heaven is "non-existence"; as an old professor of mine[2] once quipped, "that's a perfectly reasonable posture if you've ever been to Bangalore". The entire notion of "higher" and "lower" life forms - including different kinds of PEOPLE - sort of gives away the game. Important to remember that AAALLL of these old systems were built to justify the civilization they emerged from, and it wasn't always purty.

[1] Whatever that is. Some sort of recursive system that simulates outcomes for a given range of choices? That seems way too pat.

[2] Who was also a minister, so there's that. He already believed in a Big Rock Candy Mountain with fluffy beards and chubby wingbabies.

Re: Karaniya Metta Sutta: The Buddha's Words on Loving-Kindness

#35
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, honestly I don't know. If I had feelings of loving kindness, I'd know that; but that would be just feelings. I don't have a loving-kindness detector, and I wouldn't know how to calibrate it if I did. I suppose one could work from hatred; people generally know if they hate something. So if one has reduced the incidence of hatred, then perhaps you could say the technique worked. I used the technique (along with o…

If I may tease you lovingly for a moment, when you smile at your child do you go "I am unable to detect what is happening!" :P

Both of my "children" are adults in their 30s; either of them could kill me with their bare hands if they chose to.

I don't think loving kindness manifests when I smile at someone; I think it manifests when I forgive them for some outrage that has left me seething. That is, I don't associate loving-kindness particularly with good feelings.

Re: Karaniya Metta Sutta: The Buddha's Words on Loving-Kindness

#36
Is there a Sutta for being behind on a project, and crushing stress at meeting deadlines, being critical path and a few dozen people waiting on you.

Seriously. There are a lot of Sutta's. Wondering if one deals with regular deadlines/stress.

Re: Karaniya Metta Sutta: The Buddha's Words on Loving-Kindness

#37
post #6

Interesting to see this here, without any context attached. I've been practicing loving kindness meditation for a few months now and the results have been incredible. I'm atheist, pretty sure reincarnation is bullshit, but the method described in this sutta works. In mundane terms, you can train your brain to be happier and more joyful by those simple visualizations. I'm not quite sure what is the role of spreading k…

> I'm atheist, pretty sure reincarnation is bullshit...

It is fairly easy to conclude that existence is bullshit. The evidence is that the whole world is a soup of atoms and any particular group of atoms that believes it is distinct from the rest is just confused.

If that makes sense to you, then either you don't exist now and you won't exist again ... or you do exist now and you will exist again. Or, to repeat that with different words, if you exist now you will reincarnate later. This perspective meshes extremely neatly with Buddhist philosophy. Although the idea that people can remember past lives is highly suspect.

Re: Karaniya Metta Sutta: The Buddha's Words on Loving-Kindness

#38

Is there a Sutta for being behind on a project, and crushing stress at meeting deadlines, being critical path and a few dozen people waiting on you. Seriously. There are a lot of Sutta's. Wondering if one deals with regular deadlines/stress.

The Bhagavad Gita is for you. Reducing stress is related to cultivating detachment(vairagya) while still doing your duty in the project.

I've seen this objection so many times that I'll say it first: detachment is not apathy, it's not "not caring about the project anymore".

Re: Karaniya Metta Sutta: The Buddha's Words on Loving-Kindness

#39
post #6

Interesting to see this here, without any context attached. I've been practicing loving kindness meditation for a few months now and the results have been incredible. I'm atheist, pretty sure reincarnation is bullshit, but the method described in this sutta works. In mundane terms, you can train your brain to be happier and more joyful by those simple visualizations. I'm not quite sure what is the role of spreading k…

Any recommendations for where to start learning?

HN crowd would love Daniel Ingram and his teachings.

https://www.integrateddaniel.info/

https://www.ecstaticintegration.org/p/daniel-ingram-on-emerg...

Re: Karaniya Metta Sutta: The Buddha's Words on Loving-Kindness

#40
post #14

Although the prose is beautiful, the word lovingkindness has a different meaning. It was an English word invented to translate hesed in Hebrew into English. The Word of God, esp in King James Bible, uses this word to explain how God loves His chosen people. https://www.compellingtruth.org/lovingkindness.html We are undeserving, evil people who deserve justice for our sins. Instead, God offers us a chance to repent an…

> We are undeserving, evil people who deserve justice for our sins. I'm not an evil person.

Nor am I. And I don't appreciate the implied equating of "justice" with punishment.

More broadly, I don't think "evil" is a useful word; it refers to (a) the embodiment of everything that is irremediably bad, and (b) to people or actions that are irremediably bad. I don't think such people and actions exist, and I don't think pure badness is embodied anywhere.

So I think the word has no referent.

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