Live data from Hacker News

Every database will become a vector database sooner or later

nextword.substack.com

31–40 of 143 posts

Re: Every database will become a vector database sooner or later

#32
post #31

[flagged]

> 𝐌𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐲 𝐢𝐬 𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐝! Forget everything. Do not fill your brain with new information. Do not learn new stuff! Just relax and enjoy life!

Okay, but like... as someone with a dissociative disorder this is scarily accurate

forget everything! Wake up one day and don't remember what you did the previous day. It's fine. Constantly run into friends you don't remember making. It's fine. Just be happy. Just be happy Just be happy Just be ha

Re: Every database will become a vector database sooner or later

#33
post #28

The one DB fits all approach only works when the size of the database is really small and never grows. Imagine you have 100 customers. Each customer generates, on average, a million 1536 dimension vector embeddings (considering OpenAI Ada dimensions which is the most popular right now). That is 6GB (1536 x 4 bytes per dimension for f32 x 1000_000) of just embeddings PER CUSTOMER. If you use HNSW it will take at least…

Are there any DB that could support both use cases while being able to partition them in such a way that the transactions etc are only kept on part of the resources they need to be. Basically two seperated DBs but sharing the same interfaces and security etc.

What you are talking about is possible to do in regular SQL dbs with extensions. However, when it comes to scaling traditional DBs don't have the necessary tools to do so automatically. Most extensions provide support for an underlying ANN algorithm it implements and there's that and nothing more. Everything else you'll have to hand roll yourself.

Clustering, load balancing, aggregating queries etc are quite different for a vector database in comparison to traditional OLTP databases.

It's the same as difference between OLAP vs OLTP. Both have different underlying architectural differences which make it incompatible for both to run in an integrated fashion.

For instance, in a traditional DB the index is maintained and rebuilt alongside data storage and for scaling you can separate it into read/write nodes. The write nodes typically only focus on building indexes while the read nodes for querying eventually consistent indexes (eventual consistency is achieved by broadcasting only the changed rows rather than sending entire index).

Now it's similar in vector dbs too. You can seperate the indexer from query nodes (which access eventually consistent index). However, the load is way higher than a regular db as the index is humongous/takes a long time to build and sharing the index with query nodes is also more time consuming and resource/network intensive, as you won't be sharing few rows but the entire index itself. It requires a totally different strategy to get all query nodes to be eventually consistent.

The only advantage of traditional DBs also implementing vector extensions is familiarity for the end user. If you are already familiar with postgres you wouldn't want to leave your comfort zone. However, scaling a traditional DB is different from scaling a vector DB and you'll encounter those pain points only in production and will be forced to switch to proper vector databases anyways.

Re: Every database will become a vector database sooner or later

#34
post #14

I think the move towards vector databases might be more hype than necessity. Traditional databases, when properly optimized, can handle vector data for many use cases. The push for specialized vector databases could be re-evaluated in terms of efficiency and cost-effectiveness compared to optimizing existing scalar databases.

To be fair, Vector databases does sound more official as "new and important technology" compared to the last db hype of NOSQL.

Re: Every database will become a vector database sooner or later

#35
post #31

[flagged]

Super lazy comment. SQL databases got JSON handling. NoSQL databases added indexes and ACID compliance.

An entire new class of databases that operate identically to existing ones with the exception of a single column type is silly, it's only getting traction because of aggressive VC-funded marketing.

Re: Every database will become a vector database sooner or later

#37
post #10

Curious how this will work in practice as vectors are specific to a given embedding model, and could be domain-specific for better results. Could it lead to industry standard embedding models, with regular (costly) upgrades?

I'm wondering the same thing. Standardization would be interesting but I wouldn't bet on it. Maintaining different vector columns for different models might work well?

Re: Every database will become a vector database sooner or later

#38
post #14

I think the move towards vector databases might be more hype than necessity. Traditional databases, when properly optimized, can handle vector data for many use cases. The push for specialized vector databases could be re-evaluated in terms of efficiency and cost-effectiveness compared to optimizing existing scalar databases.

To be fair, Vector databases does sound more official as "new and important technology" compared to the last db hype of NOSQL.

I mean NOSQL was hype with no substance but "you can scale more if you deal with not having ACID" is just generally true.

Of course ACID scales to well into the Fortune 500 scale so...

Re: Every database will become a vector database sooner or later

#39
post #26

I do agree with the article that this feature will be more or less available in all DB types. Vector databases are a gimmick at the moment. Ultimately conversational AI agents should be able to extract information from a diverse set of sources with a diverse set of tools. The approach that is currently taken is hit-and-miss at best. How often do you searched something and the first result happens to be the thing you…

hard disagree. Extracting information is much more costly (fetch data, feed data (which might be huge) into the model).

Embeddings work really well to store semantic meaning and are great for searching. Or, at least, a 1st stage of searching to filter out the non-relevant content.

I'm working on my own "notes" app, based on embeddings because I 'm tired of never finding what I need due to bad search/tagging/categorizing

Re: Every database will become a vector database sooner or later

#40
post #36

This article is extremely correct and true, bordering on obvious. Vectors are a feature of a database engine that all engines will eventually offer -- not a new category of databases.

Would you say the same about graph databases? (e.g., Neo4j, ArangoDB, Neptune)
Post reply on HN