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Quadlets might make me finally stop using docker-compose

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Re: Quadlets might make me finally stop using docker-compose

#31

Why the name quadlets? Classical definition: > A word consisting of four bytes Quad implies 4 something or rather. What does it refer to here? 4 sections of configuration?

> The original Quadlet repository describes Quadlet this way:

> What do you get if you squash a Kubernetes kubelet?

> A quadlet

So it's based on reinterpreting the root "kuber-" which ultimately means something"to do with "turn", as "cube", and then metaphorically reducing a cube to a square.

Re: Quadlets might make me finally stop using docker-compose

#32

[flagged]

Yeah … this response is devoid of substance. What’s all this nonsense about “soy”? Why not critique the approach with what is better about your approach or docker-compose or whatever it is you use and talk about the merits.

Re: Quadlets might make me finally stop using docker-compose

#34
post #28

It's quite unfortunate that this article mixes up what's necessary for podman quadlets with coreOS concepts. With quadlets, the only thing required is to drop a `.container` file in the right place and you end up with a container properly supervised by `systemd`. And this of course also supports per-user rootless containers as described in [1]. [1]: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quadlet-podman

> With quadlets, the only thing required is to drop a `.container` file in the right place and you end up with a container properly supervised by `systemd`.

Is it? He defines a .network file in that butane config without it won't work. Not really obvious. I'm sure this has a use-case and it's nice to have but personally I'm not convinced. You can switch on user-namespaces in docker-daemon or even run docker itself rootless - I guess if you are in Redhat land and use podman anyway it's an alternative but for instance where is this thing logging into? journalctl --user? Can I use a logshipper like loki with this? Is there something like docker compose config that shows the fully rendered configuration? I personally don't see the point and it feels like overly complicated.

Re: Quadlets might make me finally stop using docker-compose

#35
post #25
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was confused by this article in the beginning, it does a pretty bad job at drawing a distinction between the pure quadlet example at the start and the example of using CoreOS to build and launch a VM that starts containers. The basic usage of podman quadlets is putting an `app.container` in `/etc/containers/systemd/` containing something like the first snippet and then starting the unit. For someone familiar with s…

I'm still not clear whether quadlets are a feature of Podman or systemd... The reliance on systemd is an issue on its own. Much has been said about its intrusion in all aspects of Linux, and I still prefer using distros without it. How can I use this on, say, Void Linux? Standalone Podman does work there, but I'm not familiar if there were some hacks needed to make it work with runit, and if more would be needed for…

I mean the best part about open source and Linux is that you have choice. Do you want to run an OS devoid of SystemD? Fine. Will you be going against the tide and leaving a large part of the ecosystem behind? Yup.

I’ve chosen to embrace systemd and learn it as it is the defacto standard it seems rather than fight what I think is a futile war against it. That being said. I won’t force you to use it if you don’t. But I do not see quadlets using systemd as a failing.

Re: Quadlets might make me finally stop using docker-compose

#36

Why the name quadlets? Classical definition: > A word consisting of four bytes Quad implies 4 something or rather. What does it refer to here? 4 sections of configuration?

An article [1] from Redhat has this excerpt:

> The original Quadlet repository describes Quadlet this way:

>> What do you get if you squash a Kubernetes kubelet? A quadlet

[1] https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quadlet-podman

Re: Quadlets might make me finally stop using docker-compose

#37
post #16
post #9

Nitpick you wonder why yaml is preferred to ini files when it is lined up to each other.

INI files are not specified anywhere, so it ends up being a implementation-defined free-for-all. Also, YAML supports data structures that INI files don't. I don't understand the hate that YAML gets. If you're not tasked with writing a parser, the data format just works as expected.

I don't know if it's yaml or jinja, but variations of https://mastodon.communick.com/@raphael/111059057995356737 keeps me wishing that we dropped all these formats and just adopted some type of lisp that could be embedded in all languages.

Re: Quadlets might make me finally stop using docker-compose

#38
post #31

Why the name quadlets? Classical definition: > A word consisting of four bytes Quad implies 4 something or rather. What does it refer to here? 4 sections of configuration?

> The original Quadlet repository describes Quadlet this way: > What do you get if you squash a Kubernetes kubelet? > A quadlet So it's based on reinterpreting the root "kuber-" which ultimately means something"to do with "turn", as "cube", and then metaphorically reducing a cube to a square.

I thought it was half a K8s.

Re: Quadlets might make me finally stop using docker-compose

#39
post #34
post #28

It's quite unfortunate that this article mixes up what's necessary for podman quadlets with coreOS concepts. With quadlets, the only thing required is to drop a `.container` file in the right place and you end up with a container properly supervised by `systemd`. And this of course also supports per-user rootless containers as described in [1]. [1]: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/quadlet-podman

> With quadlets, the only thing required is to drop a `.container` file in the right place and you end up with a container properly supervised by `systemd`. Is it? He defines a .network file in that butane config without it won't work. Not really obvious. I'm sure this has a use-case and it's nice to have but personally I'm not convinced. You can switch on user-namespaces in docker-daemon or even run docker itself ro…

It will log to wherever you configure. By default, the journal. And [0]:

> Currently, Promtail can tail logs from two sources: local log files and the systemd journal (on AMD64 machines only).

Whether it supports user services, I don't know.

[0] https://grafana.com/docs/loki/latest/send-data/promtail/

Re: Quadlets might make me finally stop using docker-compose

#40
post #29

To me, this big problem with Docker is that it does a ton of changes to my system, even when I don't use it. It runs a daemon, it uses a bunch of IPs, it mounts a ton of stuff ... Is there a reason for all that noise and complexity? There can't be a reason until I run a container, right? And even then, it seems way too much. Is it different when using Quadlets?

One of podman's selling points is that it doesn't need a daemon, and it runs without root privileges.

I'm not familiar enough with the lower level details to know how it works, but it certainly feels less like you are making "a ton of changes to the system" compared to docker

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