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Stop sending .DOC files as mail attachments There is a better way

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Re: Stop sending .DOC files as mail attachments There is a better way

#31

Post by oddthink »

DanBC wrote: post #7
icebraining wrote: post #5

It's a shame we don't use HTML for most office documents. Readers are ubiquitous, they degrade nicely in older/slower machines, they're open, etc. PDF are supposedly better for printing, but that's only if you need documents to come out exactly the same everywhere; for most, a slight difference in text reflowing doesn't really make a difference, and CSS does the rest for the most part. There's also the problem with e…

In theory there are some features in word processing packages for security (either password to open or password to edit) and for collaborative working (edits are marked) that you don't get with HTML. In practice, those security features are often broken. HTML and CSS would be an excellent solution, and in tune with the original idea (device-agnostic) of HTML. You don't know what software, or OS, or machine the receiv…

Unfortunately, HTML isn't a rich enough container. If you try to add a diagram to HTML, suddenly you need two files. The "webarchive" file formats get around this, but they're not standard.

It seems to me that we need something like PDF, but that isn't so hung up on the idea of formatting physical pages. If I'm reading on a phone, I want it to reflow.

Re: Stop sending .DOC files as mail attachments There is a better way

#32

Post by icebraining »

eli wrote: post #14
icebraining wrote: post #5

It's a shame we don't use HTML for most office documents. Readers are ubiquitous, they degrade nicely in older/slower machines, they're open, etc. PDF are supposedly better for printing, but that's only if you need documents to come out exactly the same everywhere; for most, a slight difference in text reflowing doesn't really make a difference, and CSS does the rest for the most part. There's also the problem with e…

PDF is definitely better for printing. HTML is not so hot for docs that use, say, page numbering. Plus, imagine for a second that you are not already an HTML whiz. Now in order to edit the HTML doc I sent you, you need to buy expensive, crappy WYSIWYG editing software like Frontpage or Dreamweaver.

Plus, imagine for a second that you are not already an HTML whiz. Now in order to edit the HTML doc I sent you, you need to buy expensive, crappy WYSIWYG editing software like Frontpage or Dreamweaver.

Word can actually open and edit HTML documents; the problem is that the support is shitty, particularly because they don't treat it as a normal document. But that was my point: it's a shame HTML is a second class citizen in office land.

Re: Stop sending .DOC files as mail attachments There is a better way

#33

Post by buster »

Actually, at work i try to send restructuredText + a neatly generated .pdf. Looks better, is easily editable.

As one of the few Linux/LibreOffice users i HATE(HATEHATEHATEHATE) .doc and especially .docx. It's a nightmare to work with and collaborate on it between MS Word and LibreOffice Writer. Something always gets screwed up.

Please, Office people in the world: Uninstall the nightmare that is called MS Office. LibreOffice will do everything you will ever (everevereverever) need.

And if it doesn't have to be WYSIWYG: restructuredText is a pretty, awesome, lightweight, cross platform, easily editable solution to a lot of crap that i can find in my inbox (including rst2pdf and rst2odt and rst2html, etc etc ;) ).

Re: Stop sending .DOC files as mail attachments There is a better way

#34

Post by Spearchucker »

af3 wrote: post #8

No, I won't stop. There is nothing better than Word to collaboratively work on a manuscript in a research environment. Yes, this is "Editing - Emailing - Editing" cycle, but no one has suggested anything better that actually works.

Me neither. A lot of what I do (proposals, specs) requires multiple people making simultaneous changes to a document.

I do however not have to do the edit-email-edit thing. We use SharePoint at work, which lets all of us make changes to a document in realtime.

This works inside and outside the company. The partners we typically collaborate with authenticate using identity federation. It works really well for us.

Re: Stop sending .DOC files as mail attachments There is a better way

#35

Post by monsterix »

oddthink wrote: post #31
DanBC wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory there are some features in word processing packages for security (either password to open or password to edit) and for collaborative working (edits are marked) that you don't get with HTML. In practice, those security features are often broken. HTML and CSS would be an excellent solution, and in tune with the original idea (device-agnostic) of HTML. You don't know what software, or OS, or machine the receiv…

Unfortunately, HTML isn't a rich enough container. If you try to add a diagram to HTML, suddenly you need two files. The "webarchive" file formats get around this, but they're not standard. It seems to me that we need something like PDF, but that isn't so hung up on the idea of formatting physical pages. If I'm reading on a phone, I want it to reflow.

I bet you're wrong. There is nothing more than just a container, a space and memory hog, that word processors and Adobe suites provide. I believe that HTML is far more powerful than currently tapped.

Re: Stop sending .DOC files as mail attachments There is a better way

#36

Post by jrockway »

twodayslate wrote: post #21
jrockway wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Docs works rather well for this workflow. You can add comments, edit concurrently (like SubEthaEdit), press a button to open a video hangout with your collaborators, and you get a full revision history. And, you don't have to email the doc around!

Google Docs is most often blocked by organizations.

I assumed by "research institution" he meant a university, which doesn't really care about "leaks" like Big Corporations do.

Then again, there are quite a few big corporations on Google Apps.

Re: Stop sending .DOC files as mail attachments There is a better way

#37

Post by zerostar07 »

bitboxer wrote: post #4

Or even better: just send the damn text WITHIN the actual email. You know, just how sane people do this :) .

The sort of documents that need to be reviewed are usually in a prepared-to-print format, plus the amount of garbage that would accumulate in an email after 10 reviewers would be horrendous.

Re: Stop sending .DOC files as mail attachments There is a better way

#38

Post by zerostar07 »

nagrom wrote: post #26
af3 wrote: post #8

No, I won't stop. There is nothing better than Word to collaboratively work on a manuscript in a research environment. Yes, this is "Editing - Emailing - Editing" cycle, but no one has suggested anything better that actually works.

I do research in physics. Typically we use git and latex. That's because it is easy to branch out and change the structure of the document, you can include the scripts and data used to generate data in the same repository and there's a nice, easy-to-use front end in Github. You get most of the features of word, and the math looks better. And it's platform-agnostic! It doesn't matter whether you make that document on…

The fact is that it's much harder to train people who haven't had programming experience (e.g. biologists or medical doctors) to use this stuff. Word does the same thing pretty well (better imho, the reviews interface is intuitive), and has plenty of citation managers too

Re: Stop sending .DOC files as mail attachments There is a better way

#39

Post by irahul »

gaius wrote: post #17
bitboxer wrote: post #4

Or even better: just send the damn text WITHIN the actual email. You know, just how sane people do this :) .

You might be surprised how many people simply won't read a long email, their eyes sort of glaze over, but will happily read a much longer document when the email just says "please see attached". It's like flipping a mental switch between "short note" and "real document".

How about attaching text files then?

Re: Stop sending .DOC files as mail attachments There is a better way

#40

Post by dfc »

buster wrote: post #33

Actually, at work i try to send restructuredText + a neatly generated .pdf. Looks better, is easily editable. As one of the few Linux/LibreOffice users i HATE(HATEHATEHATEHATE) .doc and especially .docx. It's a nightmare to work with and collaborate on it between MS Word and LibreOffice Writer. Something always gets screwed up. Please, Office people in the world: Uninstall the nightmare that is called MS Office. Libr…

What is the difference between sending a .doc or a .odt? I say this as someone who has not used office since staroffice released working binaries for redhat (3.0.3 I think).
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