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Should I Rust or Should I Go?

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Re: Should I Rust or Should I Go?

#31

Post by endisneigh »

You should Typescript. Performance comparable to Go. A more flexible typing system than both. Easier to learn than both. A worse package system, but that can be mitigated with discipline. What Typescript currently lacks the most is affordances for embedded or performance intensive work as it's single threaded, but when performance matters use NAPI to use Rust in your Typescript, but the trajectory of performance of V8 and Webkit is such that I wouldn't be surprised if Typescript is within the same order of magnitude for performance as Rust soon enough.

:P

Re: Should I Rust or Should I Go?

#32

Post by ryanjshaw »

> almost as easy to use as Python

At risk of starting a flame war, I don't find Python easy to use at all so I have to question anything the author says at this point.

I was first introduced to Python 25 years ago and stuck with QuickBasic, C and assembly. I recently tried to do some opencv stuff with Python and the dynamic typing made even the simplest things exhausting. Then there's the virtual environment and dependencies situation which is easy to make a mess of if you don't know about it upfront.

I found a C# library to do the same and was way more productive and finished the task at hand quickly.

Re: Should I Rust or Should I Go?

#33

Post by stefanos82 »

trollerator23 wrote: post #14
Alifatisk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s your thoughts on Ocaml? I’ve been curious Facebooks heavy use of it

They do?? Sauce?

https://github.com/facebook/pyre-check

https://github.com/facebook/flow

https://github.com/facebook/infer

https://github.com/facebook/hhvm/tree/master/hphp/hack

Re: Should I Rust or Should I Go?

#34

Post by shizcakes »

jpgvm wrote: post #17

In what world is Go more reliable or faster than Java? Especially modern Java (or other good JVM languages like Kotlin). It compiles faster but that is about it. Which is a good thing too because it's verbose AF and heavily reliant on code generation even after generics shipped so that compiler lines/s actually matters. The only knock you can put on Java for reliability is null-safety but lets be real, nil pointers,…

I feel that you've ignored all the reasons why folks feel that Go is more reliable and faster than Java.

Fighting with the JVM - even in modern versions - is an absolute pain. The practical reality of using _any_ JVM language is wasted memory footprint, classpath issues, weird dependency graphs because a mega-apache-project was used to solve a simple problem, etc. Never mind getting basic things like RPC clients over TLS (fighting with openssl and keystores? in 2023? really?) working.

> my real point was Java is easily faster and more reliable than Go and it seems pretty insane to reach the opposite conclusion

Citation needed. Disagree in practical observation.

Re: Should I Rust or Should I Go?

#35

Post by pjmlp »

jpgvm wrote: post #17

In what world is Go more reliable or faster than Java? Especially modern Java (or other good JVM languages like Kotlin). It compiles faster but that is about it. Which is a good thing too because it's verbose AF and heavily reliant on code generation even after generics shipped so that compiler lines/s actually matters. The only knock you can put on Java for reliability is null-safety but lets be real, nil pointers,…

The usual Java bashing from Go folks, meanwhile Google keeps mostly using Java, Kotlin and C++, with only a couple of key projects using Go, like Kubernetes or Google downloader.

Re: Should I Rust or Should I Go?

#37

Post by jpgvm »

Xeoncross wrote: post #22
jpgvm wrote: post #17

In what world is Go more reliable or faster than Java? Especially modern Java (or other good JVM languages like Kotlin). It compiles faster but that is about it. Which is a good thing too because it's verbose AF and heavily reliant on code generation even after generics shipped so that compiler lines/s actually matters. The only knock you can put on Java for reliability is null-safety but lets be real, nil pointers,…

> Java is easily faster and more reliable than Go I work in Java for my day job and I disagree. 1. Cold starts for Java serverless (lambda) are worse than scripting languages 2. For everything else, Java uses 5-10x more memory than Go. The memory overhead difference is really noticeable while the CPU difference is often similar.

1. Yeah but serverless is completely unnecessary. JVM rewards you for long running processes. CRaC etc are there if you really care about that though.

2. If your Java code is using 5-10x more memory for the same task you are doing it wrong. Java objects do have higher overhead vs Go structs but not an order of magnitude. You could also be tuning the heap wrong, Java will use all the memory you give it and it won't be quick to give it back unless you tell it that it should.

Re: Should I Rust or Should I Go?

#38

Post by pjmlp »

shizcakes wrote: post #34
jpgvm wrote: post #17

In what world is Go more reliable or faster than Java? Especially modern Java (or other good JVM languages like Kotlin). It compiles faster but that is about it. Which is a good thing too because it's verbose AF and heavily reliant on code generation even after generics shipped so that compiler lines/s actually matters. The only knock you can put on Java for reliability is null-safety but lets be real, nil pointers,…

I feel that you've ignored all the reasons why folks feel that Go is more reliable and faster than Java. Fighting with the JVM - even in modern versions - is an absolute pain. The practical reality of using _any_ JVM language is wasted memory footprint, classpath issues, weird dependency graphs because a mega-apache-project was used to solve a simple problem, etc. Never mind getting basic things like RPC clients over…

As if there aren't plenty of blogs about fighting Go runtime, some of them giving up, and doing rewrites in C++ and Rust.

https://discord.com/blog/why-discord-is-switching-from-go-to...

Re: Should I Rust or Should I Go?

#39

Post by User23 »

jpgvm wrote: post #17

In what world is Go more reliable or faster than Java? Especially modern Java (or other good JVM languages like Kotlin). It compiles faster but that is about it. Which is a good thing too because it's verbose AF and heavily reliant on code generation even after generics shipped so that compiler lines/s actually matters. The only knock you can put on Java for reliability is null-safety but lets be real, nil pointers,…

I’ve heard three main arguments in favor of using Go. First, that it has a standard library that is world class for building a worldwide ads serving network. If your use case is that or something that’s technically similar, then it’s great. Second, Go has extremely limited facilities for abstraction. Frankly, I dislike that about it, but the argument is that forcing programmers to use a quite limited set of abstractions makes code more readable. I have my doubts, but the argument isn’t prima facie absurd. Third, it produces statically linked binaries that you can copy and run on any machine of the same architecture.

Re: Should I Rust or Should I Go?

#40

Post by dontlaugh »

seurimas wrote: post #26

The features vs versions graph is more than a little nonsensical, and its conclusions even more so. > They should be stable and move slowly so that most of the time of your develoeprs is not spent fighting with their tools. I can't speak to Go's tooling base, but Rust's is head and shoulders above any other ecosystem that I've had to work with. This is definitely more a point in Rust's favor than against.

Go’s is ok. Not as good though.
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