A problem that should not be underestimated is that many aspiring writers do not know how to recognize a bad book, which is why they write many of them themselves.
Every aspiring writer should read terrible books (2022) [video]
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Re: Every aspiring writer should read terrible books (2022) [video]
#32I used to do standup comedy at the mostly amateur level. One woman who was always at the same shows was so unfunny, she could suck the life out of any room. I always tried to study her, thinking that if I could understand the essence of why she was so deeply unfunny, I could understand the secret to being funny. Sadly I could never figure it out. Her unfunniness was inscrutable.
The joke on briliant comedians is often clinical depression.
Re: Every aspiring writer should read terrible books (2022) [video]
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
For an intentionally terrible book, there's Atlanta Nights ( https://archive.org/details/atlantanights0000teat ). A bunch of authors got together to write the worst book possible. It has pretty much every kind of awful prose in existence, including an early case of AI generation. For awful but readable books: Most anything by Dan Brown, but for the audience here, Digital Fortress will make you tear your hair out in f…
Battlefield Earth brings back a memory: it was the first book I had read where I realised that authors can have serious mental problems. Most books are written by sane, intelligent, and educated people. The books you'll read in a high school library are also curated by librarians. There's an expectation of quality you don't notice until suddenly you pick up a book at the local council library authored by someone with…
> Most books are written by sane, intelligent, and educated people.
Wait, what? Do you know how many famous authors suffer from some sort of severe mental illness? Ernest Hemingway, Edgar Allen Poe, Tolstoy, Fitzgerald, and on and on. In fact, most of the great artists in general have a mental illness they can ascribe their creativity to. They can also be quite intelligent and educated at the same time.
Re: Every aspiring writer should read terrible books (2022) [video]
#34So, reading really bad code should aspire great developers, right?
Definitely interacting with a bad API design is a good way to avoid some pitfalls. Sadly the only way to fully learn all of them is to make an API and then coach people on using it for 10 years.
Re: Every aspiring writer should read terrible books (2022) [video]
#35I used to do standup comedy at the mostly amateur level. One woman who was always at the same shows was so unfunny, she could suck the life out of any room. I always tried to study her, thinking that if I could understand the essence of why she was so deeply unfunny, I could understand the secret to being funny. Sadly I could never figure it out. Her unfunniness was inscrutable.
Can you post some examples of her unfunny jokes?
Re: Every aspiring writer should read terrible books (2022) [video]
#36I kinda tried that with speaking and it blew back immensely and honestly only harmed me.
Focusing on other people faults and trying to avoid them made me super aware of any theoretical imperfection in what I was doing without making me able to do something actually good. I was not improving at all, I was just increasingly scared to do anything, because more and more words/acts whatever resembled something bad someone have done.
Re: Every aspiring writer should read terrible books (2022) [video]
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
am interested, do you have a listing of terrible books?
Read The Dosadi Experiment from Frank Herbert. It is a scratch at best, it is terrible. Was recommended for me by some Dune fans.
What's wrong with the Dosadi Experiment?
I remember enjoying reading it and finding the worldbuilding really interesting and the drama kept me reading. But I am a sucker for Frank Herbert so maybe I missed the flaws.
Re: Every aspiring writer should read terrible books (2022) [video]
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Battlefield Earth brings back a memory: it was the first book I had read where I realised that authors can have serious mental problems. Most books are written by sane, intelligent, and educated people. The books you'll read in a high school library are also curated by librarians. There's an expectation of quality you don't notice until suddenly you pick up a book at the local council library authored by someone with…
> Most books are written by sane, intelligent, and educated people. Wait, what? Do you know how many famous authors suffer from some sort of severe mental illness? Ernest Hemingway, Edgar Allen Poe, Tolstoy, Fitzgerald, and on and on. In fact, most of the great artists in general have a mental illness they can ascribe their creativity to. They can also be quite intelligent and educated at the same time.
Those are all pretty heavy reading. At the point I noticed L Ron Hubbard was a bit nuts, I had read only young-adult sci-fi and fantasy.
Re: Every aspiring writer should read terrible books (2022) [video]
#39I guy I know self-published a book, and it was obvious more or less from the first page that he'd never actually read more than a handful of books in his life
Right at the start there's a scene with a bunch of people in a nightclub, and when describing someone he uses the phrase "with a face like a bulldog licking piss off a nettle" - a colloquial phrase in Ireland meaning someone looks sour (see https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Face%20like%...)
... but he misplaced a comma, and the sentence he actually wrote was
"Maria, of course, standing close by with a face like a bulldog, licking piss off a nettle."
Terrible book, but almost worth reading just for that image
Re: Every aspiring writer should read terrible books (2022) [video]
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Disclaimer: I'm not a writer, but I do write music. I think there are two types "bad" writing and I think people have a hard time having nuanced discussion about this. First category is what I would personally describe "uninspired". These are works created by artists who arguably have either (1) too little exposure to prior art, or (2) too inexperienced with core skills of writing. So, in terms of my field, these art…
Great analysis, that hits a number of very good points! In particular it's interesting that you call the first category "uninspired" rather than "lacking skills". A lot of people equate this "uninspired" category with "lacking in personal expression". Typically a really skillful artist can generally make something absolutely mechanical _feel_ personal, whereas an unskilled artist cannot make anything sound personal.…
That's a very useful distinction. A lot of pop used to be - maybe still is. It works because its self-expression connects strongly with an audience.
In music, the people with the technical skills often work in support roles as session musicians, producers, and arrangers. They lack individual expression and charisma but have the skills needed to polish someone else's work.
The same applies to books. Dan Brown and Twilight are terrible writing but they give middle-of-the-bell-curve readers experiences that mean something to them. Most art aims higher, but the middle of the bell curve is where the big money is.
True mediocrity comes from having very limited technical skill - probably imitative in a narrow niche - and no ability to connect with an audience.
I think that applies to most academic attempts at serial music. The style is a bit of an oddity because the rules were contrived rather than evolved. And (IMO) that kind of dissonance has a very limited expressive range.
Schoenberg could get away with it, but there was a fad in 50s to 70s where that kind of serialism became academic orthodoxy. The result was hours and hours of music by clever educated people with absolutely no cultural relevance outside of academia.