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Self-driving cars less likely to detect children and people of color

businessinsider.com

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Re: Self-driving cars less likely to detect children and people of color

#31

Post by foooorsyth »

jl6 wrote: post #19

> While the study did not use the exact software companies like Tesla use to power self-driving cars because they are confidential, the software systems used for the study are based on the same open-source AI those companies use, according to Zhang. I was under the impression that commercial self-driving software was deeply proprietary and confidential, and there is no way to know that this study will generalize if r…

> Feels like a case of outrage-for-clicks

Like 99% of these “AI discrimination” articles.

>human-detecting AI is developed in a western country with ~60% white population. Most of the training data is collected there

>the AI performed slightly worse in Uttar Pradesh, where the people and everything else in the background look different

>AI is prejudiced! Get outraged!

Every time.

Re: Self-driving cars less likely to detect children and people of color

#32

Post by mrkeen »

AdamN wrote: post #29
candiddevmike wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the article, to me, is computer vision will never be enough. These are machines and need to be augmented with radar and other object detection methods.

Isn't radar and object detection standard for these types of systems?

They certainly should be.

Tesla stopped selling cars with radar in 2021: https://www.carscoops.com/2023/05/tesla-is-disabling-radar-s...

Elon Musk Overruled Tesla Engineers Who Said Removing Radar Would Be Problematic: https://insideevs.com/news/658439/elon-musk-overruled-tesla-...

Re: Self-driving cars less likely to detect children and people of color

#33

Post by candiddevmike »

AdamN wrote: post #29
candiddevmike wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the article, to me, is computer vision will never be enough. These are machines and need to be augmented with radar and other object detection methods.

Isn't radar and object detection standard for these types of systems?

Tesla does not: https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision#:~:....

Re: Self-driving cars less likely to detect children and people of color

#34

Post by helmette »

candiddevmike wrote: post #21
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #15

It won't be long till they won't just be detecting people, by identifying specifically which people they are. Think of the data! All those cars logging time/location of all those people. (which, of course, will only be used for good and the occasional targeted ad)

I think what you're trying to say is cars will start identifying folks and logging their location. Cell tracking/triangulation data is already available from cell companies. Self driving cars aren't going to make things worse.

Carrying a mobile phone is optional.

Re: Self-driving cars less likely to detect children and people of color

#36

Post by sokoloff »

candiddevmike wrote: post #24
jl6 wrote: post #19

> While the study did not use the exact software companies like Tesla use to power self-driving cars because they are confidential, the software systems used for the study are based on the same open-source AI those companies use, according to Zhang. I was under the impression that commercial self-driving software was deeply proprietary and confidential, and there is no way to know that this study will generalize if r…

The point of the article, to me, is computer vision will never be enough. These are machines and need to be augmented with radar and other object detection methods.

It’s intended to replace human drivers who have not yet evolved radar. I agree that radar could make it easier and/or more reliable, but there’s a pretty strong argument that building a system to equal/exceed humans using vision alone is possible.

Re: Self-driving cars less likely to detect children and people of color

#37

Post by lemper »

as much as I dislike "AI" and its adjacent topics in HN, I think this can be solved with the companies which have the stake to get data from Asia and African nations. I don't know, pay someone group of people to drive around Cape Town, Bengaluru, Shanghai, Shaanxi, Jakarta, and whichever place that has a lot of "PoC" and kids.

Re: Self-driving cars less likely to detect children and people of color

#38

Post by notamy »

luma wrote: post #28
candiddevmike wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be illegal, the current systems will never deliver without additional object detection methods (radar, lidar, etc). Get this shit recalled and back to the drawing board.

Do you have lidar and radar when you drive? Should it be illegal for you to drive without those things?

What is it with people on this website (not specifically the user I’m replying to) and going with "the computer vaguely does the thing the human does, literally what's the difference???" (or similar) as an argument/gotcha/etc. around ML/AI/self-driving/...? It’s painfully obvious that the computer and the human are different systems that process information differently and therefore likely need different sets of inputs for optimal function.

Re: Self-driving cars less likely to detect children and people of color

#39

Post by DennisP »

gcanyon wrote: post #5
GaggiX wrote: post #3

>This is due to bias in open-source AI, on which self-driving cars rely, researchers say. Or they are simply less visible.

> This is due to bias in open-source AI, on which self-driving cars rely, researchers say. The second line in the article

Yes but by "bias" they just mean the miss rate is different. Digging into the study, they talk about visibility and contrast, and checked whether the problem is worse at night (which it is). They don't appear to be suggesting that the algorithms are prejudiced against darker-skinned people.

Re: Self-driving cars less likely to detect children and people of color

#40

Post by mrkeen »

zirgs wrote: post #8

How do they work in winter then? You can't see much skin if someone is wearing a winter coat. Right - self driving cars are a solution for Silicon Valley only only so they don't even bother testing those cars elsewhere.

> A team of researchers in the UK and China tested how well eight popular pedestrian detectors worked depending on a person's race, gender, and age.

- edit -

Sorry, I read the article too quickly and assumed it was talking about the countries UK and China. Perhaps they only bothered testing the cards in UK, Silicon Valley and China, Silicon Valley.

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