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For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

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Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#31
post #3

Synposis: Shitty Silly-Con valley company is selling "teaching homeschoolers" under the guise of "microschooling" and "guides" instead of proper teachers. Reading in any of these scam companies, and you'll find quickly that they are not schools, and these are not accredited teachers. But again, deregulation and demolishment of public sector structures and laws to further private interests IS the point, as we'll see.…

This doesn't accurately reflect the reality of the situation. Atlanta Public Schools (my local district) spends $22k per student and average teacher pay is like $60k. Get 7 kids together and you can hire a teacher with 10s of thousand left over for other stuff. Or send your kid into a class room with 20-30 other kids.

Some of this is cheating by not dealing with the added expense of special needs kids. But a lot more of it is the explosion of administration and expenses not directly related to education.

It seems to be the trend in local government. Taxes get collected and the bureaucracy grabs the bulk of the dollars leading only a little of the value delivered back to the citizens. Schools are a prime example. 25 kids in a class room are consuming $1 million of tax dollars and less than 10% of that goes to the person educating them.

Like you call $2k bonkers but what do you think APS is consuming in administration to educate my kid?

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#32
post #17

Why are people in the US so against public schools? I am someone who did not really enjoy “school” and found it anxiety inducing but I still see the benefits of it. In public school you are forced to mingle with the people of your generation. The ones who will inevitably go on to run the country in whatever big or small way. The objective of public school is to break down the regional identities of old and assimilate…

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Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#33
post #17

Why are people in the US so against public schools? I am someone who did not really enjoy “school” and found it anxiety inducing but I still see the benefits of it. In public school you are forced to mingle with the people of your generation. The ones who will inevitably go on to run the country in whatever big or small way. The objective of public school is to break down the regional identities of old and assimilate…

Because their schools are financed by local property taxes so if everybody around you isn't rich, your public school is poor and bad.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#34
post #18
post #13

> Home-schooled children have attended Ivy League schools and won national spelling bees. They have also been the victims of child abuse and severe neglect. Some are taught using the classics of ancient Greece, others with Nazi propaganda. So ... just like kids in public school? Somewhat orthogonal to the article: In my state a lot of people were forced to home-school during Covid, and a significant percentage of the…

> I've known homeschooled kids that are easily 2 grades ahead of where they would be at a typical public school - and with no social shortcomings whatsoever For certain kids school is holding them up But that’s the problem with a standardization. What are the odds that all kids need the same amount of time for all subjects Initially everyone was home schooled. The school system is a feature & bug of scaling up

> But that’s the problem with a standardization. What are the odds that all kids need the same amount of time for all subjects

They acknowledge that, but it doesn't change the thought process, right? If I know my kids can learn 70% more than they do in public schools, and have all the skills/tools to provide it to them, I don't care about the reason schools are inefficient.

The sentiment that homeschooling parents has is that public schools time things to target below average students. That's wildly inefficient. Couple it with a reluctance to hold back students and it gets even more inefficient. I went to a private school. For certain key subjects (history, math, science, etc), if you failed just one subject you get held back and have to repeat the whole year. As a student, this was fantastic. It means if your class got stuck with a "troublemaker" who was poor academically and disruptive, you wouldn't have to put up with him for more than a year. He would either shape up eventually or keep failing till the parents pulled him out because it's too expensive.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#35
post #17

Why are people in the US so against public schools? I am someone who did not really enjoy “school” and found it anxiety inducing but I still see the benefits of it. In public school you are forced to mingle with the people of your generation. The ones who will inevitably go on to run the country in whatever big or small way. The objective of public school is to break down the regional identities of old and assimilate…

> Why are people in the US so against public schools?

Mostly, even homeschoolers, aren’t.

They either (and the latter is, I guess, a special case of the former, but worth calling out separately) think the existing public schools available to them are a failure in general or for the specific needs of their children that is unresolvable in time to adequately serve their children without being “against public schools” more generally (I’ve known people who work in public education and homeschool that are in this group with regard to their children’s specific needs), or they are ideologically opposed to education that isn’t guided by indoctrination in their particular religious/ideological beliefs and believe that the current public schools available to them are inadequate on those grounds.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#36

I don't really "get" homeschooling. How can parents be knowledgeable in all the subjects that school teachers teach? There are also cases of parents homeschooling for the purpose of religiously or otherwise ideologically indoctrinating their children, something that does not often happen in public schools, both due to the curricula as well as heterogeneity of thought via socializing and sharing information with many…

It's not about what is taught to kids but about what kids retain.

And it seems that primary role of school when the bottom line is considered is keeping kids busy so their parents can work in peace. So there's really no strong objection if some parents want to opt out of this because not many will.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#37

I don't really "get" homeschooling. How can parents be knowledgeable in all the subjects that school teachers teach? There are also cases of parents homeschooling for the purpose of religiously or otherwise ideologically indoctrinating their children, something that does not often happen in public schools, both due to the curricula as well as heterogeneity of thought via socializing and sharing information with many…

> How can parents be knowledgeable in all the subjects that school teachers teach?

Ask parents who home school. Also, just read the article.

> There are also cases of parents homeschooling for the purpose of religiously or otherwise ideologically indoctrinating their children, something that does not often happen in public schools,

At some level, it definitely happens in schools. People who deny it's happening have a worldview where what they teach is the "norm" or consider it "basic fact". Just ask any parent who has said something along the lines of "I don't want my school teaching my kids X. What does X have to do with education?" - replace X with anything in the social justice sphere.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#38
post #2

We are in our ninth year of homeschooling. My wife and I attended private and public schools and grew up with typical biases against homeschooling, e.g. they lack social skills. When we got married, we always assumed we'd send our kids to traditional schools. What we learned, though, is that homeschooling has changed since we were in school. Back then, it was a niche, and the sort of parents who chose to homeschool u…

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This being HN, a site full of mostly successful folks, we are likely to only hear the anecdotal success stories of homeschooling posted here, and not the failure stories. For every gushing "I was homeschooled and I now run my own $50M company!" story, how many are not getting posted that amount to "I was homeschooled and the only book I read was the bible. I don't know 4th grade math, am unemployable and trapped as someone's housewife." Are there even published statistics about this?

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#39
post #2

We are in our ninth year of homeschooling. My wife and I attended private and public schools and grew up with typical biases against homeschooling, e.g. they lack social skills. When we got married, we always assumed we'd send our kids to traditional schools. What we learned, though, is that homeschooling has changed since we were in school. Back then, it was a niche, and the sort of parents who chose to homeschool u…

How much time does homeschooling take for you? Does it roughly equate to one full-time job? I have wanted to homeschool my kids but I am afraid I would have to quit my job or downshift to part-time. And since they are different ages, I worry that if I taught them all at the same time, the curriculum would average into something too challenging for the younger and not challenging enough for the elder. How do you manag…

Motivated children can easily outpace public-schooled children with 3 or 4 days a week at 3 hours a day. They can be very self-directed, but the trouble with it is they go down rabbit holes and they'll excel at one or two subjects to the detriment of others.

My daughter would want to spend 6-10 hours a day on art, but wouldn't want to do her French or math homework. My son just told me that alef (in the Hebrew alphabet) was the symbol for Graham's number, but balks when I try to get him to memorize his multiplication tables.

> And since they are different ages, I worry that if I taught them all at the same time, the curriculum would average into something too challenging

If there is a subject where that is the case, I do not know what it would be. Once they're past the age of 7 or 8, most or all children are capable of what they would be at older ages. I don't think, for instance, that an 8 yr old learning to read is slower at it than one learning that for the first time at age 14.

For the record though, didn't get to teach my son to read. With his sister, I tried from age three on up... every few months I'd see if she was more agreeable to it, and she wanted nothing to do with it until sevenish. She could sound words out phonetically if I pushed from the start, but with a look on her face like I was pulling teeth with pliers. So I waited with my son until he was almost seven... and he could just read. I have no idea how. My wife claims she didn't, and his sister certainly didn't either.

I think, really, that public schools doing age segregation has more to do with them trying to perfectly homogenize the product they crank off the assembly line, than it does with making sure each student gets enough learning opportunity.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#40
post #17

Why are people in the US so against public schools? I am someone who did not really enjoy “school” and found it anxiety inducing but I still see the benefits of it. In public school you are forced to mingle with the people of your generation. The ones who will inevitably go on to run the country in whatever big or small way. The objective of public school is to break down the regional identities of old and assimilate…

I think with any discussion of public schools, it's highly dependent of where you reside and what wacky choices the administrators make.

The controversial "new math" here in California that delays algebra until 9th grade (~14 years of age) probably has caused a lot of parents with engineering backgrounds to reconsider.

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