A complete guide to building a hand-wired keyboard (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: A complete guide to building a hand-wired keyboard (2020)

#31

Post by qwerty456127 » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 11:29 AM UTC

drekipus wrote: post #4

qwerty456127 wrote: post #2

Sounds very interesting. I have looked through premium and "custom" keyboards market recently and found out their customness mostly is about look&feel, key placement and omitting "unnecessary" keys while I want a positively custom set of keys: as many keys as possible - full keypad, multimedia keys separate from f1-12 keys, Windows context menu key, also programmable macro keys if possible, no spatial "optimizations"…

Really you probably just want a normal keyboard with some good firmware. I started out with a moonlander, which had a lot of keys (36 each hand) but to be honest, I'm trying to minimise as much as possible, and remove keys from it. That way I'm fully constrained to the home row. Also, layers are amazing and sounds like something you might want to look into. Hold 'a' and use hjkl for media keys, etc. It's all very fle…

I never knew there are keyboards with configurable firmwares, also never heard about layers. Your comment sounds very helpful, thank you. By the way I already considered buying a Moonlander because of its 2-part design - I have an idea of possibly using a computer while lying on the floor sort of like in the Shavasana posture with my hands by my sides rather than in front of me.

Re: A complete guide to building a hand-wired keyboard (2020)

#32

Post by glormph » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 11:50 AM UTC

hnlmorg wrote: post #7

wakeupcall wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression for the popularity of the 75% form factor is due to laptops and people being accustomed to never have used the "missing" keys in the first place. A tell-tale is that default layout even for thinkpads is to set the Fn row to media keys by default... An increasingly smaller number of people use them, despite being a row of freely remappable keys right _there_. What I've seen happen though is that especial…

I completely agree. I never understood this craze of removing keys. The number pad is another example of this. Typing numbers is massively more comfortable (and quicker too) on the number pad than it is with the row of numbers just below the F-keys. The amount of desk space people save is so negligible, particularly when people who buy these keyboards typically work in “paperless” offices, that I never understood the…

I agree that looks and deskspace is not something to optimize for and number entering is great on the number pad, but the ergonomics expert at my job informed us that shorter hand travel to the mouse is better against straining or something, so not using numpads would help. Or move the mouse/trackpad to the left.

Re: A complete guide to building a hand-wired keyboard (2020)

#33

Post by jan_Sate » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 11:53 AM UTC

unnouinceput wrote: post #8

qwerty456127 wrote: post #2

Sounds very interesting. I have looked through premium and "custom" keyboards market recently and found out their customness mostly is about look&feel, key placement and omitting "unnecessary" keys while I want a positively custom set of keys: as many keys as possible - full keypad, multimedia keys separate from f1-12 keys, Windows context menu key, also programmable macro keys if possible, no spatial "optimizations"…

Same here. All these modern keyboards are missing a lot of what old one had. The most I miss most is the Alt GR one, the bigger ENTER key and I want a lot of space. Call me fat fingers if you want. So I started to actually create my own. And I want it to be programmable. And movable, as in you can move the key around, enlarge or shrink them. And when I say I want them programmable I meant to pull a little gizmo out o…

I wouldn't recommend using ESP32 for that. It's overpowered for this application. You don't even need its wireless connectivity. I guess using something like RP2040 or ATTiny would be a better option.

Re: A complete guide to building a hand-wired keyboard (2020)

#34

Post by 533474 » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 11:55 AM UTC

rmaus wrote: post #27

onetimeuse92304 wrote: post #9

As an amateur EE, here my thoughts. If you can do CAD you can probably also design a PCB with a socket for some kind of general purpose MCU or even one of ready-made keyboard controllers. Through-hole soldering is IMO actually simpler than making these "spiders" (that's how in my country we call circuits with self-supported wire to wire joints, usually with at least some components hanging in air by their leads). "Sp…

There are certain kinds of fully custom keyboards, such as the one I use (Dactyl Manuform) where the keys do not sit on a single flat plane. Such a build would require a flexible PCB. This is doable for the advanced-amateur EE but the geometry is fiddly, at best, and doesn't allow for easy experimentation on key placement (spacing, offset, radius, etc, the bigger problem for me). I've found the happy medium with sing…

I'm interested in your build ;)

Re: A complete guide to building a hand-wired keyboard (2020)

#35

Post by onetimeuse92304 » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 12:47 PM UTC

rmaus wrote: post #27

onetimeuse92304 wrote: post #9

As an amateur EE, here my thoughts. If you can do CAD you can probably also design a PCB with a socket for some kind of general purpose MCU or even one of ready-made keyboard controllers. Through-hole soldering is IMO actually simpler than making these "spiders" (that's how in my country we call circuits with self-supported wire to wire joints, usually with at least some components hanging in air by their leads). "Sp…

There are certain kinds of fully custom keyboards, such as the one I use (Dactyl Manuform) where the keys do not sit on a single flat plane. Such a build would require a flexible PCB. This is doable for the advanced-amateur EE but the geometry is fiddly, at best, and doesn't allow for easy experimentation on key placement (spacing, offset, radius, etc, the bigger problem for me). I've found the happy medium with sing…

Couple years ago I started building my own keyboard from scratch. Custom PCB, custom circuit design, custom MCU, custom programming, custom CNC-ed enclosure, some custom keys... In hindsight I should have relaxed a bit on building everything custom and then maybe I would have finished it.

The main idea was to get a keyboard with built in steno and ability to get programmed any way I want. It would also have a small built in OLED display to aid some of the functionality.

Another idea was to have built in mouse (trackpoint + keys that can be used as mouse keys).

Re: A complete guide to building a hand-wired keyboard (2020)

#36

Post by qwerty456127 » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 1:41 PM UTC

joncrocks wrote: post #30

hnlmorg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. I never understood this craze of removing keys. The number pad is another example of this. Typing numbers is massively more comfortable (and quicker too) on the number pad than it is with the row of numbers just below the F-keys. The amount of desk space people save is so negligible, particularly when people who buy these keyboards typically work in “paperless” offices, that I never understood the…

I think it's a concession that use of particular parts of the keyboard is person and context specific. e.g. At home, I only very occasionally enter numbers. I very frequently use my mouse, and have large monitors. So I sacrifice slightly less convenient number entry for slightly more room for my mouse(pad) all the time. At work, I have a full-size keyboard and I spend a higher proportion of my time typing and enterin…

Isn't it better to have identical keyboards everywhere for sake of muscle memory?

Re: A complete guide to building a hand-wired keyboard (2020)

#37

Post by nick__m » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 4:09 PM UTC

unnouinceput wrote: post #8

qwerty456127 wrote: post #2

Sounds very interesting. I have looked through premium and "custom" keyboards market recently and found out their customness mostly is about look&feel, key placement and omitting "unnecessary" keys while I want a positively custom set of keys: as many keys as possible - full keypad, multimedia keys separate from f1-12 keys, Windows context menu key, also programmable macro keys if possible, no spatial "optimizations"…

Same here. All these modern keyboards are missing a lot of what old one had. The most I miss most is the Alt GR one, the bigger ENTER key and I want a lot of space. Call me fat fingers if you want. So I started to actually create my own. And I want it to be programmable. And movable, as in you can move the key around, enlarge or shrink them. And when I say I want them programmable I meant to pull a little gizmo out o…

why an esp32 instead something simpler like an stm8 (or an stm32f103c8t6 if you need arduino compatibility) if you really want an mcu per key ?

Re: A complete guide to building a hand-wired keyboard (2020)

#38

Post by hnlmorg » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 4:32 PM UTC

eviks wrote: post #15

hnlmorg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. I never understood this craze of removing keys. The number pad is another example of this. Typing numbers is massively more comfortable (and quicker too) on the number pad than it is with the row of numbers just below the F-keys. The amount of desk space people save is so negligible, particularly when people who buy these keyboards typically work in “paperless” offices, that I never understood the…

Why would you move your hand to the numpad if you can use your orthostaggered "numpad" with a layer right where your hand already is on the alpha keys?

Because moving your hand is a one time effort vs moving it up and down the keyboard to enter those pesky 6 digit TOTP codes where the digits could be at opposite ends of the keyboard.

Plus I’ve been using keyboards longer than a lot of (probably most) developers on here have been alive and I haven’t ever found using the number pad to be even remotely an effort.

Re: A complete guide to building a hand-wired keyboard (2020)

#39

Post by rmaus » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 5:28 PM UTC

533474 wrote: post #34

rmaus wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are certain kinds of fully custom keyboards, such as the one I use (Dactyl Manuform) where the keys do not sit on a single flat plane. Such a build would require a flexible PCB. This is doable for the advanced-amateur EE but the geometry is fiddly, at best, and doesn't allow for easy experimentation on key placement (spacing, offset, radius, etc, the bigger problem for me). I've found the happy medium with sing…

I'm interested in your build ;)

https://imgur.com/a/wyqPSeo (unsure why this is marked 18+, sorry; it's SFW).

You can see my first build (blue) in several of these pictures following similar advice to OP's guide (looping diodes, etc), with one modification where I used copper tape for the columns instead of wires.

Then the first picture you can see how much cleaner the single-switch PCB ends up, and I can assure it was far easier to solder / strip / assemble.

Re: A complete guide to building a hand-wired keyboard (2020)

#40

Post by nlunbeck » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 5:58 PM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #36

joncrocks wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a concession that use of particular parts of the keyboard is person and context specific. e.g. At home, I only very occasionally enter numbers. I very frequently use my mouse, and have large monitors. So I sacrifice slightly less convenient number entry for slightly more room for my mouse(pad) all the time. At work, I have a full-size keyboard and I spend a higher proportion of my time typing and enterin…

Isn't it better to have identical keyboards everywhere for sake of muscle memory?

This is my #1 priority now that I'm in the market for a new keyboard. I lose so much typing efficiency when switching between laptops, so functionality or comfort is no longer a leading factor for me.