Wikipedia donations used for politics, not for running Wikipedia • Hacker News Board

Re: Wikipedia donations used for politics, not for running Wikipedia

#31

Post by NoZebra120vClip » Tue, Aug 22, 2023, 4:19 AM UTC

shrubble wrote: post #4

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #2

Okay, so I read this article to the end (right down to the ironic "Become a Supporter" button, which I thought was another screenshot at first, but it's a real button.) I kept thinking... so? What's your point? People run these WMF hitpieces all the time, and they are absolutely enraged that Wikipedia dared to splash a dialog box asking for their money . These are the same people who regularly visit ad-infested news…

I think it is disingenuous to talk about "freeloading" when the license that the content was released under, was freely chosen? No one is forcing anyone to license content under Creative Commons...

You misunderstand the meaning of "free".

If it is possible to contribute to WMF monetarily, by volunteering in myriad ways, etc., and it is not supported in any other way, such as ads, subscriptions, corporate sponsors, then technically anyone who reads Wiki*edia or downloads content from Commons, Wikisource, etc., is freeloading without contributing anything.

The WMF doesn't mind, certainly, that there is a large plurality of freeloaders: that's their very model. But they also need money and volunteers to run everything, and that's why they're mugging you with dialog boxes.

If you don't have the time, effort, or expertise to volunteer for WMF, consider donating voluntarily, because you certainly do benefit from their mission, and see above about fungibility.

Frankly, though, it is far, far better to attempt to volunteer in some capacity, because as has been demonstrated, they're financially pretty flush, whereas the volunteer situation is always fairly desperate on several fronts.

Re: Wikipedia donations used for politics, not for running Wikipedia

#32

Post by NoZebra120vClip » Tue, Aug 22, 2023, 4:59 AM UTC

satisfice wrote: post #20

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #2

Okay, so I read this article to the end (right down to the ironic "Become a Supporter" button, which I thought was another screenshot at first, but it's a real button.) I kept thinking... so? What's your point? People run these WMF hitpieces all the time, and they are absolutely enraged that Wikipedia dared to splash a dialog box asking for their money . These are the same people who regularly visit ad-infested news…

The point is they are lying. I always assumed they were lying when they put up the banners saying they needed money urgently. Now I know. That’s the point.

I don't see them lying.

I can see them exaggerating, and using extreme pathos to convince you, in a mere dialog, of the need for donations.

At worst, yes, their pleas could mislead the naïve. But they are extremely careful in their wording, and if they were outright lying, then they would suffer for it, perhaps even legally.

It's interesting, because many of the dialogs I see here are actually appealing to people who read Wikipedia the most (and don't edit it.) So I would say that's a good and targeted appeal to the freeloaders.

I am open to correction on this: if you can find a dialog from WMF that outright lied and told a falsehood about a material fact, then show it to us, and prove the fact. As we say, [citation needed].

I'll start you with a helpful image search: https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&sca_esv=558977329&...

Re: Wikipedia donations used for politics, not for running Wikipedia

#33

Post by satisfice » Tue, Aug 22, 2023, 4:34 PM UTC

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #32

satisfice wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is they are lying. I always assumed they were lying when they put up the banners saying they needed money urgently. Now I know. That’s the point.

I don't see them lying. I can see them exaggerating, and using extreme pathos to convince you, in a mere dialog, of the need for donations. At worst, yes, their pleas could mislead the naïve. But they are extremely careful in their wording, and if they were outright lying, then they would suffer for it, perhaps even legally. It's interesting, because many of the dialogs I see here are actually appealing to people who…

The impression they give about needing money is wrong. They intend to give that impression. It’s lying.

I think Wikipedia should go away. The entire philosophy is wrong. It’s a toxic mess. But until it does, I don’t see any problem with punishing it by visiting its pages.

Re: Wikipedia donations used for politics, not for running Wikipedia

#34

Post by NoZebra120vClip » Tue, Aug 22, 2023, 11:13 PM UTC

satisfice wrote: post #33

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see them lying. I can see them exaggerating, and using extreme pathos to convince you, in a mere dialog, of the need for donations. At worst, yes, their pleas could mislead the naïve. But they are extremely careful in their wording, and if they were outright lying, then they would suffer for it, perhaps even legally. It's interesting, because many of the dialogs I see here are actually appealing to people who…

The impression they give about needing money is wrong. They intend to give that impression. It’s lying. I think Wikipedia should go away. The entire philosophy is wrong. It’s a toxic mess. But until it does, I don’t see any problem with punishing it by visiting its pages.

Of course they need money. They have operating costs, salaries, rents, contracts to pay. You're the liar if you say that an organization doesn't need money to keep operating.

Anyone who visits WMF's servers and uses their websites without donating or volunteering is a freeloader, and you are a net drain on WMF's resources. That's why the most donation dialogs appear to people who visit frequently.

They don't "need" your five-dollar donation, because they have other donors. If 100% of their donors decided WMF didn't "need" any money and they all withdrew their donations, WMF would quickly implode. Perhaps you could convince everyone to do so!