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Demystifying ESIM Technology [video]

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Re: Demystifying ESIM Technology [video]

#31

Post by toast0 »

housemusicfan wrote: post #19
wkat4242 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What?? I had no idea about this. I have not had an iPhone since the 6 so I haven't followed it that closely. I remember they offered eSIM for dualsim, I had no idea they were eSIM only in the US even for primary SIM use. Wow. This will so not work over here. > I'm certain the space regained by removing the SIM slot in a US-only variant has been repurposed for...absolutely nothing. Yeah, after all the specs are no dif…

Specs typically vary slightly with LTE band support but nothing that would drive large mechanical changes. This was a deliberate move, an A/B test of sorts. Good point on the mmWave support. I wonder if that's where the antenna is located. I don't care about mmWave, nor does anyone I know, so it doesn't even cross my mind. mmWave is a dying tech. It will suffer the same fate as WiMAX. If this is the trade off (and it…

> mmWave is a dying tech. It will suffer the same fate as WiMAX. If this is the trade off (and it shouldn't be), I'll choose the SIM slot every time.

I think mmWave has a lot more staying power than WiMAX. WiMAX as deployed was an alternative network to general purpose cell phone networks. As a third alternative to CDMA/GSM and upcoming LTE, it didn't make a lot of sense in the market.

mmWave is deployed as augmentation to a network, mostly to increase capacity at hotspots like stadiums and maybe transit centers. Additionally it provides beneficial marketting, because network providers and handset makers can claim their network/device does huge bandwidth even if it's only true when you're the only person in a stadium.

Given that US iPhone 12 and up support mmWave, and that spectrum management is a challenge at stadiums, it's pretty likely we'll continue to see deployments in that space. Even if mmWave doesn't live up to the marketting, moving half the customers to it frees up traditional spectrum for those customers that don't have it.

Is it going to expand much beyond those situations? Maybe to airports and NYC train stations, but probably not beyond that. Is it ever going to be more than a small fraction of time connected for people other than stadium employees? No. Does that mean it's dying? No, it's just a constrained niche. Should you prefer a phone with or without mmWave? Depends on how often you go into situations with high person density.

Re: Demystifying ESIM Technology [video]

#33

Post by nexus7556 »

wkat4242 wrote: post #12
Veliladon wrote: post #8

We really dodged a bullet on eSIM. The implementation could have really sucked if the carriers controlled it from the start. Apple do a lot of dumb shit but they set a really high bar for an eSIM implementation for others to match.

But they do control it. This is a big problem in Europe. You can't get one on a prepay contract with most of the local carriers, they limit the phones they will allow them to be used on to only locally sold versions, and they often charge for a SIM swap or limit the amount of times you can change phones per month. None of these limitations were present with physical SIMs.

In Thailand anytime a new SIM is activated an ID check is required. In the past I kept a SIM and I used to just move it between phones. Now when I want to move my eSIM between phones I need to go to the shop with my passport or do a video call with tech support and show my passport to them over the call. Such a pain in the ass.

Re: Demystifying ESIM Technology [video]

#34

Post by housemusicfan »

toast0 wrote: post #31
housemusicfan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specs typically vary slightly with LTE band support but nothing that would drive large mechanical changes. This was a deliberate move, an A/B test of sorts. Good point on the mmWave support. I wonder if that's where the antenna is located. I don't care about mmWave, nor does anyone I know, so it doesn't even cross my mind. mmWave is a dying tech. It will suffer the same fate as WiMAX. If this is the trade off (and it…

> mmWave is a dying tech. It will suffer the same fate as WiMAX. If this is the trade off (and it shouldn't be), I'll choose the SIM slot every time. I think mmWave has a lot more staying power than WiMAX. WiMAX as deployed was an alternative network to general purpose cell phone networks. As a third alternative to CDMA/GSM and upcoming LTE, it didn't make a lot of sense in the market. mmWave is deployed as augmentat…

Is it a meaningful alternative to Passpoint Wi-Fi in the scenarios you described?

Re: Demystifying ESIM Technology [video]

#35

Post by housemusicfan »

gorbypark wrote: post #22
housemusicfan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA versions of Apple's flagship phones (iPhone 14 and up) have ZERO physical SIM slots. They are dual eSIM only. Models sold elsewhere in the world retain a single physical SIM slot. Yes you read that correctly. They made multiple versions and the American one is deliberately crippled. I'm certain the space regained by removing the SIM slot in a US-only variant has been repurposed for...absolutely nothing. It de…

I don't have the time to look, but I saw a YouTube video where someone swapped the dual physical sim daughterboard from a Chinese iPhone into an American one. It fit and it worked. I'm about 80% sure it was a dual eSIM only American model (14), but it's possible it was a single SIM/single eSIM one (13 and below). Anyways, I am pretty sure the space is there and is just unused.

Amazing, just found a video where they add a SIM slot to a US iPhone 14. The space is there and the slot just plugs right in. It required removing some resistors (to reroute the data lines from the eSIM to the slot). They didn't even cut a hole in the chassis for the SIM tray; they inserted the card before closing the lid.

This proves it was purely a marketing move which makes the decision even more insane.

Re: Demystifying ESIM Technology [video]

#36

Post by toast0 »

housemusicfan wrote: post #34
toast0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mmWave is a dying tech. It will suffer the same fate as WiMAX. If this is the trade off (and it shouldn't be), I'll choose the SIM slot every time. I think mmWave has a lot more staying power than WiMAX. WiMAX as deployed was an alternative network to general purpose cell phone networks. As a third alternative to CDMA/GSM and upcoming LTE, it didn't make a lot of sense in the market. mmWave is deployed as augmentat…

Is it a meaningful alternative to Passpoint Wi-Fi in the scenarios you described?

Yes, but note that carriers will do all of the above. Use their licensed 'sub-6g' spectrum where traditional cell networks operate; make use of unlicensed spectrum for Passpoint Wi-Fi, use (licensed) mmWave spectrum.

Depending on the venue, they're likely to do a mix of whatever is most cost effective. But more spectrum, if usable by the handsets people actually have in their pockets is helpful.

Re: Demystifying ESIM Technology [video]

#37

Post by housemusicfan »

WallyFunk wrote: post #20
someotherperson wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re very useful. Although it’s sometimes hard to get eSIMs direct from carriers internationally since many only grant them on post-paid contracts. SIM cards also have their place, however, which is why Apple’s take on it is weird. When traveling, especially with so much MFA (for better or worse) is linked to a phone number, it makes having your phone damaged a major issue. You can’t simply pop out the SIM and mov…

> SIM cards also have their place They're trying to kill physical SIM cards like they did with CDs. They only have their place insofar as you can say 'I can touch this, and also swap it out with another one' / otherwise 'tangible computing'.

Killing off physical SIMs is like arguing in favor of soldered RAM.

Because that's all eSIMs are you know. They are not software SIMs. They are physical components with the additional capability of being provisioned remotely by the end user with a friendly UI that sometimes works.

Moving physical SIMs (and thus your service) from a damaged, inoperable phone to a new one takes approximately 5 seconds. This cannot be improved upon with eSIM.

That said, eSIMs have their place too, especially in the industrial IoT space. But completely eliminating physical SIMs from consumer handsets is beyond stupid.

Re: Demystifying ESIM Technology [video]

#39

Post by flotzam »

notpushkin wrote: post #25

Any idea how one can get hands on consumer-profile eUICC cards (or chips)? I've wanted to play around with eSIM (and perhaps use it for travel purposes), but don't want to upgrade my phone just yet. Found this one, but it's for testing only: https://www.smartjac.biz/esim-subscription-management/consum...

https://esim.me is selling an eUICC-on-a-physical-SIM card. The only part that sucks is that you have to provision eSIM profiles through their proprietary Android app. Someone please reverse engineer it?

Re: Demystifying ESIM Technology [video]

#40

Post by mrtksn »

HumblyTossed wrote: post #38

For those with multiple phones, how easy is switching back and forth?

Unfortunately, the support for transferring eSIM between devices is not universal and some operators choose not to support it and charge money for each transfer(i.e. charge money to generate a QR code). The tech is fine but the greedy telcos don't miss the opportunity to screw us over.
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